MikeR Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Years ago I collected in a quarry exposing Early Pleistocene Caloosahatchee Formation in Hendry County Florida where I found vertebrate remains alongside abundant shell material. At the time I thought that it might be from overlying Upper Pleistocene however nowdays it is known that the Caloosahatchee does contain Pleistocene mammal material. Two of the specimens I thought might be Identifiable. The first picture I believe is deer antler and the limb bone might also be deer based upon size. Any help or additional input would be graciously accepted. Thanks Mike Deer Antler? ??? "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed1 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Your first item is part of the main beam of an antler. The spot in the middle is where a tine has been broken off. I'm not sure about the second bone but I'm sure Rich will be able to ID that one for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) Could I get a view of the smaller, broken end, taken end-on? Yes the first picture is a small antler of Odocoileus. I don't think the broken off tine was a brow tine, as it is on the wrong side of the curve. It is probably the bez tine. Rich Edited December 8, 2013 by RichW9090 The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 Thanks Rich. Hopefully these will help. "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Hmmm. The bone is almost pachyostotic. If it were curved, I would suggest a manatee rib fragment. But it seems pretty straight. Perhaps Bobby will recognize it as some other bone in the manatee. It certainly isn't anything terrestrial with which I'm familiar. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Huh, I'm not really too sure what that thing is. It strikes me as being a bit too skinny to be a sirenian element, and most Neogene cetaceans - certainly all Plio-Pleistocene cetaceans - are generally close to osteoporosis rather tha pachyosteosclerosis or just plain osteosclerosis. So, this bone is a bit of an enigma to me also. Could it be another type of weird antler element, perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 Who would have thought that this would be such a stumper? I am attending the North American Paleonotological Convention in Gainesville this upcoming February. Maybe the people at FMNH might have an idea. Thanks guys for your help. Mike "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 The external shape isn't quite right for an antler as far as I can see. This may be one of those which needs to be in hand to make anything of. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 It looked like the end of a mammal rib to me as well and something large like maybe a walrus? Jess Hmmm. The bone is almost pachyostotic. If it were curved, I would suggest a manatee rib fragment. But it seems pretty straight. Perhaps Bobby will recognize it as some other bone in the manatee. It certainly isn't anything terrestrial with which I'm familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 I am at the North American Paleontological Convention and I have shown the unknown bone to several people. Consensus is seal although no one can place it to where in the skeleton. "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 They don't know what bone in the skeleton it is, but they think they know what kind of animal it's from? Is there some structural peculiarity that distinguished seal bones? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) I first showed it to Roger Portell and although he is an invert paleontologist, he has seen his fair share of fossil bone. After looking it over he thought seal but was not sure and told me to show it to Richard Hulbert. Richard's first response was also seal but he couldn't tell exactly which bone as the distal end is not complete. The overall flatness and shape of the bone is what makes it seem "seal-like". Roger thought it was quite a find as there has been no report of seals in the Caloosahatchee Marl. I have the Timmerman Seal/Dolphin book at home and I will look and see if I can find a comparible bone. Edited February 17, 2014 by MikeR "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Trained eyes looking at discrete details; not an opinion to be summarily discarded! The rarity of such a find begs a trip to a comparative collection! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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