fossilsonwheels Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Here are a couple more micro teeth that I think are very interesting. I picked these up a month or so ago. They were sold as a pair and labeled as Cantioscyllium. They are from the Taylor Marl, Campanian stage, Cretaceous of Landonia Texas. That is the information the seller provided along with an uncertainty about the ID. I purchased them believing the ID was not correct. I thought the larger one was a Cat Shark tooth. The smaller one I had no clue about. I have found nothing on line about the fauna of the formation so I am flying blind as far as that goes. I still think the larger one may be a Scyliorhinus. That is based only on similarities with some teeth I have seen from Cretaceous New Jersey. The little one I am still absolutely clueless on. I did find a Eocene Cat shark tooth that looked similar but I really do not know. Pic 1 and Pic 2 are the larger tooth. Right around 4mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Apparently I only took pictures of one side. This one is so small, 1mm, that is hard to work with. I don’t want to break it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 @MarcoSr @Al Dente @ynot This may be earlier (Cretaceous) and distant (Texas) from your normal micro-chondrichthyan teeth but I wonder if you have broader knowledge of Catshark teeth? They both seem to match my (inexperienced) concept of Catshark teeth but I'm not finding any matching images in searches for the genus Cantioscyllium. Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 A bit more research has turned up what is likely the bible on Cretaceous fossil shark teeth from Texas: https://dallas-paleontological-society.myshopify.com/products/the-collectors-guide-to-fossil-sharks-and-rays-from-the-cretaceous-of-texas Assuming this book covers some of the tinier species (and it looks like it from the images on the cover), this would likely be a good source to ID your little teeth. Maybe someone here on the forum from the Texas area already owns this book and may be able to research it a bit further. @JohnJ ? Cheers. -Ken 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Still don't have that one. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Looks like it would be the best place to find the answer. I wonder if we have other members of the DPS on the forum or if the author has a good contact email? Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 No resemblance to Cantioscyllium which is an Orectolobiforme. These teeth look like two different species, both some type of sandtiger-like Lamniforme. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 10 hours ago, fossilsonwheels said: Here are a couple more micro teeth that I think are very interesting. I picked these up a month or so ago. They were sold as a pair and labeled as Cantioscyllium. They are from the Taylor Marl, Campanian stage, Cretaceous of Landonia Texas. That is the information the seller provided along with an uncertainty about the ID. I purchased them believing the ID was not correct. I thought the larger one was a Cat Shark tooth. The smaller one I had no clue about. I have found nothing on line about the fauna of the formation so I am flying blind as far as that goes. I still think the larger one may be a Scyliorhinus. That is based only on similarities with some teeth I have seen from Cretaceous New Jersey. The little one I am still absolutely clueless on. I did find a Eocene Cat shark tooth that looked similar but I really do not know. Pic 1 and Pic 2 are the larger tooth. Right around 4mm Odontaspid? 1 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, hemipristis said: Odontaspid? I thought about that as a possibility. I did find some that bore a resemblance. I also found some similar looking teeth that belonged to Protolamna but nothing that gave me any certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 hours ago, digit said: A bit more research has turned up what is likely the bible on Cretaceous fossil shark teeth from Texas: https://dallas-paleontological-society.myshopify.com/products/the-collectors-guide-to-fossil-sharks-and-rays-from-the-cretaceous-of-texas Assuming this book covers some of the tinier species (and it looks like it from the images on the cover), this would likely be a good source to ID your little teeth. Maybe someone here on the forum from the Texas area already owns this book and may be able to research it a bit further. @JohnJ ? Cheers. -Ken I need to get that book. I have been telling myself to for awhile. Thank you for the suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Al Dente said: No resemblance to Cantioscyllium which is an Orectolobiforme. These teeth look like two different species, both some type of sandtiger-like Lamniforme. I figured they different. Sand-tiger like Lamniforme seems to be the direction to lean. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 hours ago, digit said: Looks like it would be the best place to find the answer. I wonder if we have other members of the DPS on the forum or if the author has a good contact email? Cheers. -Ken 2 hours ago, fossilsonwheels said: I need to get that book. I have been telling myself to for awhile. Thank you for the suggestion Check out the below link: http://texassharks.org/contact.php Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 hours ago, fossilsonwheels said: I need to get that book. I have been telling myself to for awhile. Thank you for the suggestion You also can order the book from the Dallas Palaeontology Society’s website where they have other good books: link 1 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jersey Devil Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 The first tooth would be a great match for Protolamna if it didn’t have a nutrient groove. But the groove makes it a sand tiger. 1 “You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 On 8/30/2019 at 12:02 PM, MarcoSr said: Check out the below link: http://texassharks.org/contact.php Marco Sr. Thank you. I am familiar with the website but just had not ordered the book. I need to though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 18 hours ago, The Jersey Devil said: The first tooth would be a great match for Protolamna if it didn’t have a nutrient groove. But the groove makes it a sand tiger. Thank you. That is what everyone seems to think so that is what we will go with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 On 8/30/2019 at 6:54 AM, digit said: @MarcoSr @Al Dente @ynot This may be earlier (Cretaceous) and distant (Texas) from your normal micro-chondrichthyan teeth but I wonder if you have broader knowledge of Catshark teeth? They both seem to match my (inexperienced) concept of Catshark teeth but I'm not finding any matching images in searches for the genus Cantioscyllium. Cheers. -Ken Hi Ken, I agree that they are both likely cat sharks - probably undescribed. I would need to go through some papers to see. At 4mm and of that shape the first tooth is probably too small to be a sand tiger and it would have to be one that has those pronounced vertical ridges on both the labial and lingual faces. That is a tooth character seen in some cat sharks even today. The Welton and Farish book mentioned cat sharks devoting a couple of pages to them but the authors just refer to them generally by family because none of the forms they figured were formally described at the time. That book is over 25 years old now (suddenly). Parts of it are outdated but it is still useful particularly the introductory section. If you read the pages on the Scyliorhinidae (cat shark family) you learn that even modern cat sharks and their dentitions are poorly-understood. This is still true though there has been progress. Not having a good understanding of modern cat sharks hampers the study of fossil ones. Jess 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 10 hours ago, siteseer said: Hi Ken, I agree that they are both likely cat sharks - probably undescribed. I would need to go through some papers to see. At 4mm and of that shape the first tooth is probably too small to be a sand tiger and it would have to be one that has those pronounced vertical ridges on both the labial and lingual faces. That is a tooth character seen in some cat sharks even today. The Welton and Farish book mentioned cat sharks devoting a couple of pages to them but the authors just refer to them generally by family because none of the forms they figured were formally described at the time. That book is over 25 years old now (suddenly). Parts of it are outdated but it is still useful particularly the introductory section. If you read the pages on the Scyliorhinidae (cat shark family) you learn that even modern cat sharks and their dentitions are poorly-understood. This is still true though there has been progress. Not having a good understanding of modern cat sharks hampers the study of fossil ones. Jess Jess Great information. Thank you. You convinced me to stick to my original ID for our programs. We have plenty of sand tiger teeth to talk about but just a couple of possible Cat Shark teeth. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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