Cockatoo Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 In fact hundreds of them. All perfect. And all from China. How many are fakes? All of 'em? ______________________________________________________ I watch, and am as a sparrow alone upon the house top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 "All" is such an absolute...but you're probably pretty close to right. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 All most all Galveston Island 32 miles long 2 miles wide 134 bars 23 liquor stores any questions? Evolution is Chimp Change. Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain! "I like to listen. I have learned a great deal from listening carefully. Most people never listen." Ernest Hemingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 99% of them in my opinion. The best bet is to look for ones which have defects... looking for ones which aren't fossilized perfectly or are in an awkward position increases chances of authenticity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Definitely most of them. When it comes to Chinese fossils, deal only with very trusted and knowledgeable dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrocklds Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 i am not saying that there are not alot of fakes. but i hav seen hundreds of these at shows and never seen one that is completely fake. most of them are decent specimens that have been destroyed by prep and painted back to look like new. these are very common fossils and it is a shame that so few are prepared with any degree of skill. i have examined and bought many over the years and i can tell you that the prep quality has gone way downhill in the last 5 years. Brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockatoo Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 I like to attend the fossil shows here in Atlanta and see what I think are suspicious displays. They're just too "perfect". Now I'm a complete amateur and hope to learn a lot here. I'll pick up a few little things I know are real. I'll get an $8 Moroccan trilobite that's still kinda sandy and stuff. After finding my fish part in Fla, I REALLY want to go find my own now! ______________________________________________________ I watch, and am as a sparrow alone upon the house top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundancer73 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) Do not trust Chinese or Hong Kong dealers.. I know first hand of fakes ranging from samurai swords to jade 'artifacts' to fossils... caveat emptor.. I have become so cynical that I (almost) refuse to believe anything is genuine that I don't find myself.. indian artifacts for example.. however, I'm hearing stories that here in Florida people are find FAKE Spanish coins.. some folks are actually seeding beaches with copies.. sheesh.. so even if you find one no guarantees... ~Mike Edited December 17, 2009 by Sundancer73 All your fossils are belong to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) Bought one of those Keichousaurus a few yrs back, thought it was a great buy...the next day the same fossil appeared on another dealer... photo was identical to the fossil I just bought....the flaws and fossil settings identical... I knew I was cooked.... you get that sick sinking feeling... and yes when the fossil arrived I examined under microscope and confirmed fossil was fabricated.... $100 lesson.... after that... have not bought another fossil from China.... I am in agreement that most of the fossils coming out of China unfortunately are fakes... sad but true. PL Edited December 16, 2009 by pleecan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Here is a real one (one of two I have). Advantage being I purchased them many years ago when they were still the newest thing. One thing I have observed is that the longer a fossil is available (especially from Morocco or China) the higher odds of your getting a fake; as the sellers perfect their copying craft. When in doubt (besides the above advice) check the verts and toe bones closely. Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockatoo Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 Your pelvis and shoulders look "correct" to me. Are any counterfeiters casting and firing porcelain then jumbling them in a matrix? Or casting trilos? Thise "Russian" ones with they eyes and stuff look too awful perfect. ______________________________________________________ I watch, and am as a sparrow alone upon the house top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Strictly opinion here, but if you look at some of the Oklahoma Tb's which have a similar preservation you will notice the "perfection" of those too. I can't say the Russians are 100% not fakes but many are quite real. Here is another from my collection. The only alterations are that the eye stalks snapped off one when I moved so I repaired it. The cracked one was repaired before I got it. Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockatoo Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 GREAT SPECIMENS! One day I'll have one of those! ______________________________________________________ I watch, and am as a sparrow alone upon the house top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockatoo Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 You know, I don't mind a restoration. Just tell me up front. I don't mind saving money. ______________________________________________________ I watch, and am as a sparrow alone upon the house top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Here's the other keich This is about 6". Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Very nice collection Frank! PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlichia Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Very nice original examples Frank,congrats! Yes of course there are several fake of Kei reptiles and other fossils from these zones to cheap value,many are carved in the slabs,several are only neck and head and the preparator make the body with the abrasive utensils from the same slab,but these are easy to see that are fake,the bones are carved and painted without a shape of the bones,the fakes are also in the slabs with the cracks in calcite,usually for some of these a percentage of the body is carved,the same for some of the Triassic fishes,others are two different pieces and glued together for make only one fossil,for the tile/body neck/head,etc..A good system for check is the UV light (see above the good example of the other member),but if are carved or for the examples for the trilobites,if there is a special resin or glue (anti UV light),you can't see the difference of the colour under the UV light,but is all with one colour... so you need to check with the 10x lens under the day light (sun) or under and near to the neon or normal light,so you can see the bubbles or the limit of the glue or resin near to the original parts. This is a my example 100% original,prepped with KHO,is a long work,but is perfect and in part disassembled for the fossilization,if you have luck to find an unprepped example,you can try to prep with this slow method,so you have the original piece for the 100%,you need to check before the shape of the body if is complete,under the thin surface of the slab. 1 ->>>>> < Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Very nice original examples Frank,congrats! Yes of course there are several fake of Kei reptiles and other fossils from these zones to cheap value,many are carved in the slabs,several are only neck and head and the preparator make the body with the abrasive utensils from the same slab,but these are easy to see that are fake,the bones are carved and painted without a shape of the bones,the fakes are also in the slabs with the cracks in calcite,usually for some of these a percentage of the body is carved,the same for some of the Triassic fishes,others are two different pieces and glued together for make only one fossil,for the tile/body neck/head,etc..A good system for check is the UV light (see above the good example of the other member),but if are carved or for the examples for the trilobites,if there is a special resin or glue (anti UV light),you can't see the difference of the colour under the UV light,but is all with one colour... so you need to check with the 10x lens under the day light (sun) or under and near to the neon or normal light,so you can see the bubbles or the limit of the glue or resin near to the original parts. This is a my example 100% original,prepped with KHO,is a long work,but is perfect and in part disassembled for the fossilization,if you have luck to find an unprepped example,you can try to prep with this slow method,so you have the original piece for the 100%,you need to check before the shape of the body if is complete,under the thin surface of the slab. Really nice prep work! PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raimo Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Very nice original examples Frank,congrats! Yes of course there are several fake of Kei reptiles and other fossils from these zones to cheap value,many are carved in the slabs,several are only neck and head and the preparator make the body with the abrasive utensils from the same slab,but these are easy to see that are fake,the bones are carved and painted without a shape of the bones,the fakes are also in the slabs with the cracks in calcite,usually for some of these a percentage of the body is carved,the same for some of the Triassic fishes,others are two different pieces and glued together for make only one fossil,for the tile/body neck/head,etc..A good system for check is the UV light (see above the good example of the other member),but if are carved or for the examples for the trilobites,if there is a special resin or glue (anti UV light),you can't see the difference of the colour under the UV light,but is all with one colour... so you need to check with the 10x lens under the day light (sun) or under and near to the neon or normal light,so you can see the bubbles or the limit of the glue or resin near to the original parts. This is a my example 100% original,prepped with KHO,is a long work,but is perfect and in part disassembled for the fossilization,if you have luck to find an unprepped example,you can try to prep with this slow method,so you have the original piece for the 100%,you need to check before the shape of the body if is complete,under the thin surface of the slab. Hi Redlichia, I have an unprepared keichousaurus so I would try to prepare it with chemical. Please will you give me more informations and details about "KHO metod" ? In the past I prepared ones with very small tips under microscope, but it's very long and heavy work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) I saw a few dealers in Tucson with numerous specimens each. I was at a friend's booth when a customer asked for help picking one out of another dealer's stock, admitting he didn't know what to look for. Like you and Nicholas advised, we looked carefully at the bones and found two good ones for him to choose from. My friend ended up buying one too - one that was incompletely prepped (he's going to finish it). When in doubt (besides the above advice) check the verts and toe bones closely. I haven't been examining these over the years but had a chance to this year at Tucson. I think you're right about many "fakes" being just bad prep jobs. Some specimens look like they've been ground down into the bone. Some of them have skulls and necks that are pretty much gone but most of the rest of the body is there (some look like mix n' match; some maybe just from the vagaries of erosion - it would be interesting to see a paper on the deposit). It's like coins, guns, and historical documents, you really have to know what you're looking at with fossils especially when the sticker says $100 or more. i am not saying that there are not alot of fakes. but i hav seen hundreds of these at shows and never seen one that is completely fake. most of them are decent specimens that have been destroyed by prep and painted back to look like new. these are very common fossils and it is a shame that so few are prepared with any degree of skill. i have examined and bought many over the years and i can tell you that the prep quality has gone way downhill in the last 5 years. Brock Edited May 11, 2011 by siteseer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinopaleus Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 i agree, huge number of fakes of keichos from china. possibly becuz there arent enough real ones or maybe they are attempting to replace real ones in illegal export for fakes. idk, but i am sure that there are a ton of fakes lol, even in china here's a good tutorial. http://www.paleodirect.com/fakekeichousaurfossils.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members Aeronaut Posted June 20, 2011 New Members Share Posted June 20, 2011 Thanks for a very informative discussion. I just bought a Keichousaurus and was disappointed when it arrived and was obviously fake, painted on. So I removed most of the paint (which washed off easily, just black acrylic). Imagine my surprise to find a real Keichousaurus fossil under there! So a poor but complete real fossil had been painted over to look clearer. Think about it: the easily saleable Keichousauruses are running out, so they're mining the ones that they previously considered not good enough to sell, and then painting them to become saleable. All fossil deposits are like that, good ones plus poor ones you can't be bothered digging out. The genius of the painting is that it also enables them to bypass the export ban: if an official ever questions them, they say they're painted reproductions. You've got to admire the ingenuity of the Chinese! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMNH Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 One person brought in a keichousaur when I was visiting the ROM's fossil ID Clinic. I felt kind of bad for them when it was pointed out that it was peeling right off the rock. :laughing on the floor 24: The Rom paleontologists said if it wasn't over $1000 in price (the one that was brought in was somthing like $50), it was almost certainly a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLB Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) here's mine and it's a baby one and i had a paleontologist tell me that it was real!!! so i liked what i heard and it looks real to me !!! Edited June 29, 2011 by DLB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLB Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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