fossilsofnj Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Nothing glamorous and it may be a little too busted up to get an id on, but I thought I would give it a try. Measures 10mm long and 15mm at its widest point. Concave on both ends. Thanks, It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling. - Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 wow. that's kinda cool looking, but i don't see the characteristics of a vert. don't know what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDD Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) Does it feel dense? Like metal maybe? Looks suspiciously like a spent pellet from an air rifle. Maybe a big too big for that, though, perhaps... Dan Edited November 14, 2009 by DDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsofnj Posted November 14, 2009 Author Share Posted November 14, 2009 Does it feel dense? Like metal maybe? Looks suspiciously like a spent pellet from an air rifle. Maybe a big too big for that, though, perhaps... Dan Hi Dan, Definitely bone. Being concave on both sides has me stumped. It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling. - Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Hi Dan, Definitely bone. Being concave on both sides has me stumped. it kind of goes beyond that. there's almost a metallic luster on the end in the first picture. and although there are some pits in it, there aren't any distinguishing features that verts usually have, like processes or anything. i'd guess it wa a phosphate pellet or something if it didn't have the distinctive shape, but i don't know what the shape is. almost looks like a plug cut out with a hole punch. strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa dino Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 I'm still look just a few more books to go It could be fish or lizard vert ? I had a 22g air rifle that's what I thought too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 It could have had processes that were eroded away... "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 it's not a pellet. it's too wide and it doesn't have an obturation skirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsofnj Posted November 14, 2009 Author Share Posted November 14, 2009 it kind of goes beyond that. there's almost a metallic luster on the end in the first picture. and although there are some pits in it, there aren't any distinguishing features that verts usually have, like processes or anything. i'd guess it wa a phosphate pellet or something if it didn't have the distinctive shape, but i don't know what the shape is. almost looks like a plug cut out with a hole punch. strange. Here is a picture of the other end. This side has been broken and may have been close to the shape of the intact end. There is stream wear on this specimen. To your point on the phosphate pellet, they are very common in the streams of NJ. While I would never rule it out, this one has all the makings of bone. It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling. - Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 obturation skirt? what's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 no, i gotta tell you - with that last picture i'm just having to say that i think it's not a fossil, and definitely not bone. i think it's something like a phosphate pellet that formed a cool shape through some process i'm not sure about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 I see a piece of metal; it has the very distinctive and characteristic pitting patten of iron/steel that gets corroded in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 obturation skirt? what's that? a portion at the base of a projectile that deforms outward and seals against the side of a barrel to prevent gas blow-by and engage the rifling in the barrel to impart spin and hence improve accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordpiney Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 ive seen a few verts like that one before from ramenessin. ive always thought they were from fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsofnj Posted November 14, 2009 Author Share Posted November 14, 2009 no, i gotta tell you - with that last picture i'm just having to say that i think it's not a fossil, and definitely not bone. i think it's something like a phosphate pellet that formed a cool shape through some process i'm not sure about. Tracer, I believe you to be correct. The edges of the break don’t look right. When I look where the pictured larger vert is broken the bone structure is very apparent. I don’t see this on the specimen in question. I’m embarrassed to say that this is most likely just an interesting looking concretion. It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling. - Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 I've collected the NJ brooks for over 20 years and I tend to agree that it is a vert. Very worn, to be sure, but probably a vert none the less. Since it is so worn, it is nearly impossible to ID with confidence, but if I had to guess, I'd go for batoid (ray). They tend to wear down just like this with the softer interarticular areas wearing faster than the articular areas. I could be wrong - the brooks have a LOT of simulacra - but I'd still vote for vert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsofnj Posted November 14, 2009 Author Share Posted November 14, 2009 I've collected the NJ brooks for over 20 years and I tend to agree that it is a vert. Very worn, to be sure, but probably a vert none the less. Since it is so worn, it is nearly impossible to ID with confidence, but if I had to guess, I'd go for batoid (ray). They tend to wear down just like this with the softer interarticular areas wearing faster than the articular areas. I could be wrong - the brooks have a LOT of simulacra - but I'd still vote for vert. I agree with how the verts can wear down in the NJ streams. For my own edification I will sacrifice a couple of definite ray verts to a sharp blow from a hammer. I’m curious to see what the break looks like. It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling. - Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Tracer, I believe you to be correct. The edges of the break don’t look right. When I look where the pictured larger vert is broken the bone structure is very apparent. I don’t see this on the specimen in question. I’m embarrassed to say that this is most likely just an interesting looking concretion. well, if this last picture you posted is of the same piece, then maybe it is what's left of a vert. i didn't see this cancellous structure in your initial pictures at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-remanié Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) Good to see you on the forum John! My first impression was the same as Carl's, ray vert. The interarticular areas often wear away and this leaves us those mock ray scutes that are really just the left over articular plate surfaces which are much more resistant to weathering. Ray verts wouldn't have that familiar cancellous bone structure and to further complicate matters, some reptilian verts from the NJ brooks come out so rounded and permineralized that you can barely, if at all, see the cancellous bone structure anyway. Edited November 15, 2009 by toothpuller ---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 live and learn - interesting stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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