Notidanodon Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Hi guys, I have come to you for help as I really don’t know what I’m talking about when it comes to New Zealand shark teeth (I’m fairly sure these are all selachian), anyway, I have separated them into what I think are the separate species based on my understanding of tooth morphology, sorry for lack of scale, for reference the teeth vary from around 2mm-5mm here is species 1 side view of the most complete one There appear to be very faint serrations more prevalent in one of them 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notidanodon Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 This is the 2nd species, maybe a descendant of the goblin shark? Thanks again, these almost all Miss roots they could just be a different tooth position though 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notidanodon Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 Finally n.3 these are smaller than the previous ones and have different shaped blades thanks for your help 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Trilo Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 My guess would be some sort of sharks Cool teeth, looking forward to what they are. 1 “If fossils are not "boggling" your mind then you are simply not doing it right” -Ken (digit) "No fossil is garbage, it´s just not completely preserved” -Franz (FranzBernhard) "With hammer in hand, the open horizon of time, and dear friends by my side, what can we not accomplish together?" -Kane (Kane) "We are in a way conquering time, reuniting members of a long lost family" -Quincy (Opabinia Blues) "I loved reading the trip reports, I loved the sharing, I loved the educational aspect, I loved the humor. It felt like home. It still does" -Mike (Pagurus) “The best deal I ever got was getting accepted as a member on The Fossil Forum. Not only got an invaluable pool of knowledge, but gained a loving family as well.” -Doren (caldigger) "it really is nice, to visit the oasis that is TFF" -Tim (fossildude19) "Life's Good! -Adam (Tidgy's Dad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 How certain are you these are from New Zealand? The complete one in the first picture looks like Somniosus (Greenland shark) which as far as I know never lived there, but I'm not entirely sure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notidanodon Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 11 hours ago, gigantoraptor said: How certain are you these are from New Zealand? The complete one in the first picture looks like Somniosus (Greenland shark) which as far as I know never lived there, but I'm not entirely sure. My thoughts were Greenland shark myself but I had the same issue as you, I am 100% certain, I got them in a trade with @mamlambo maybe @Al Dentecould help 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, will stevenson said: My thoughts were Greenland shark myself but I had the same issue as you, I am 100% certain, I got them in a trade with @mamlambo maybe @Al Dentecould help Check the genera of the Somniosidae family. Some (like Centroscymnus) seem to live/ have lived around New Zealand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notidanodon Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 Just now, gigantoraptor said: Check the genera of the Somniosidae family. Some (like Centroscymnus) seem to live/ have lived around New Zealand. Ok great thanks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Centrophorus has been found in the Paleocene of New Zealand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notidanodon Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 5 hours ago, Al Dente said: Centrophorus has been found in the Paleocene of New Zealand. thanks I will read up on that paper, it seems a good match, maybe it will contain some of the other species I have 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 On 11/25/2020 at 6:11 AM, gigantoraptor said: How certain are you these are from New Zealand? The complete one in the first picture looks like Somniosus (Greenland shark) which as far as I know never lived there, but I'm not entirely sure. I was wondering the same, and thought "nah, that' can't be" Interesting!! 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 14 hours ago, will stevenson said: thanks I will read up on that paper, it seems a good match, maybe it will contain some of the other species I have Hi Will, I agree with Al Dente that the more complete tooth is Centrophorus and the isolated crowns might belong to one or two other squaliform sharks. I'm wondering if the more erect crown could belong to Oxynotus which would suggest a Miocene-Pleistocene age. Centrophorus has been reported from all across the Cenozoic of New Zealand. Did you get a locality or any idea of age from your friend? Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notidanodon Posted November 26, 2020 Author Share Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, siteseer said: Hi Will, I agree with Al Dente that the more complete tooth is Centrophorus and the isolated crowns might belong to one or two other squaliform sharks. I'm wondering if the more erect crown could belong to Oxynotus which would suggest a Miocene-Pleistocene age. Centrophorus has been reported from all across the Cenozoic of New Zealand. Did you get a locality or any idea of age from your friend? Jess Yes it’s the Miocene Greta formation, sorry I put it in the tags but forgot to put it in the main text 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 11/24/2020 at 12:11 PM, gigantoraptor said: How certain are you these are from New Zealand? The complete one in the first picture looks like Somniosus (Greenland shark) which as far as I know never lived there, but I'm not entirely sure. Somniosus pacificus lives today off the eastern New Zealand coast and the margins of the Pacific Ocean (Japan, Bering Sea, Mexico) and it is known from the Oligocene of Washington. The root looks more like Centrophorus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 11/24/2020 at 11:50 AM, will stevenson said: Finally n.3 these are smaller than the previous ones and have different shaped blades thanks for your help This tooth is similar to an upper anterior of modern Euprotomicrus though the root of your tooth is more robust. I don't think I've seen a fossil tooth like this. Jess 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notidanodon Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 8 hours ago, siteseer said: This tooth is similar to an upper anterior of modern Euprotomicrus though the root of your tooth is more robust. I don't think I've seen a fossil tooth like this. Jess It’s a very weird one! Thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notidanodon Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 New thought, what if the supposed centrophorus was deania @siteseer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 You'd have to read more to make that determination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 That near-complete Centrophorus is a prize! 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notidanodon Posted February 13, 2021 Author Share Posted February 13, 2021 On 11/02/2021 at 8:19 PM, siteseer said: You'd have to read more to make that determination. I thought seeing as the crown was non serrated it was pretty straight forward? Is that distinction correct, thanks for your help On 12/02/2021 at 2:04 AM, hemipristis said: That near-complete Centrophorus is a prize! thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notidanodon Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 Just thought I’d come back to the topic again as I was having another look at these, for the complete tooth, with the medial cutting edge unserrated, wouldn’t that make this a deania? @siteseer or am I missing some more subtle differences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 On 4/27/2021 at 10:44 AM, will stevenson said: Just thought I’d come back to the topic again as I was having another look at these, for the complete tooth, with the medial cutting edge unserrated, wouldn’t that make this a deania? @siteseer or am I missing some more subtle differences I should have added that I'd have to read more to make that determination. You have to be careful with serrations. Sometimes, they make a difference; sometimes they don't. I saw a Parotodus that had weak serrations. I have a couple of publications buried in boxes. I will try to see what they say this weekend. Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notidanodon Posted May 1, 2021 Author Share Posted May 1, 2021 19 minutes ago, siteseer said: I should have added that I'd have to read more to make that determination. You have to be careful with serrations. Sometimes, they make a difference; sometimes they don't. I saw a Parotodus that had weak serrations. I have a couple of publications buried in boxes. I will try to see what they say this weekend. Jess Yeah, serrations can be tricky, thanks for looking into it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notidanodon Posted May 11, 2021 Author Share Posted May 11, 2021 @siteseer did you find anything interesting? I was looking at the protrusion of the blade onto the root and that seemed to match deania better as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 On 5/10/2021 at 11:23 PM, will stevenson said: @siteseer did you find anything interesting? I was looking at the protrusion of the blade onto the root and that seemed to match deania better as well Hi Will, I'm sorry for the delay. I keep looking at that tooth. Is it chipped toward the tip on the mesial edge? Yes, the rule is a tooth like that with an unserrated mesial edge and a narrower cusp would be Deania especially if characters of the root cannot be examined as is usually the case. From what I've read, Centrophorus can be weakly serrated or unserrated but Cappetta (2012) is unclear because he says "straight" though I think he means "smooth." Deania tends to be smaller, flatter, and with a narrower root. I can see going with Deania for that tooth though it might still be Centrophorius. Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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