Joan Wiffen's Theropod

[Australian Paleontology]

Hello there, so in New Zealand there is an indermitate theropod dinosaur most commonly referred to as Joan Wiffen's Theropod. I am extremely confused on what the specimen actually is because some sources say the specimen is represented by a toe bone while others say a partial vertebrae.

 

Also if anyone could tell me the specimen number (GNS 00 000, for example) or link a scientific paper explaining actually what it is i would be highly appreciative, thank you

[Dave pom Allen]

A probable theropod bone from the latest Jurassic of New Zealand

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00288306.1998.9514798

[Australian Paleontology]

22 hours ago, Dave (POM) Allen said:

A probable theropod bone from the latest Jurassic of New Zealand

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00288306.1998.9514798

I appreciate it but im certain it is not Jurassic aged, so this isn't it but still thank you

[Thomas.Dodson]

I think Dave Allen is on the right track with papers authored by Molnar. In his linked paper there is a reference "Theropods (and small ornithopods) are known to have inhabited Late Cretaceous New Zealand, which had cool climatic conditions (Molnar & Wiffen 1994)".

 

In addition, this excerpt came from a biography on Joan Wiffen.

 

"Similar marine fossils had been discovered elsewhere in New Zealand, but evidence that dinosaurs had once walked the New Zealand landmass remained elusive. This changed in 1979 when the Wiffens visited Dr Ralph Molnar, an American dinosaur expert based at the Queensland Museum in Brisbane. Joan saw a vertebra on his desk that she felt was identical to one of the unidentified specimens they had excavated in about 1975. Molnar inspected their fossil and confirmed that it was the tailbone of a theropod, a medium-sized carnivorous dinosaur. At last the presence of dinosaurs in New Zealand had been confirmed." It goes on to say this was described at a conference in Wellington in 1980.

 

It seems likely that the information you seek is included in the publication Molnar, R. E.; Wiffen, J. 1994: A Late Cretaceous polar dinosaur fauna from New Zealand. Cretaceous research 15:689-706.

Unfortunately I could only find this article behind paywalls.

[piranha]

1 hour ago, Thomas.Dodson said:

It seems likely that the information you seek is included in the publication Molnar, R. E.; Wiffen, J. 1994: A Late Cretaceous polar dinosaur fauna from New Zealand. Cretaceous research 15:689-706.

 

 

A couple more:

 

Wiffen, J., Molnar, R.E. 1989

An Upper Cretaceous Ornithopod from New Zealand. Geobios, 22(4):531-536

 

Molnar, R.E., Wiffen, J. 2007

A Presumed Titanosaurian Vertebra from the Late Cretaceous of North Island, New Zealand. Arquivos do Museu Nacional, 65(4):505-510  PDF LINK

[Australian Paleontology]

Okay so i was able to find out a bit about the Joan Wiffens's Theropod. So the Joan Wiffen Theropod was the first ever dinosaur discovered in New Zealand so there is already our first hint. I was able to hunt down the paper (Molnar, R. E. 1981. A dinosaur from New Zealand. Pp. 91–96 in M. M. Cresswell & P. Vella (eds) Gondwana Five: Proceeding of the Fifth International Gondwanan Symposium. Wellington. A. A., Balkema, Rotterdam.) but i have no idea how to access it. If anyone can help me access this paper or tell him how to do it i would be highly appreciative. Thank you

[dinosaur man]

I might be able to help on this, it think I’m thinking of the same specimen?  It’s a Theropod toe and the paleontologist that discovered it have been finding more bones there, they think it could actually be from a bonebed, but if they said the way the bonebed is it could actually be from the Cenozoic being the first Non avian Cenozoic dinosaur!  Check out this link 

 especially at the 39:30 part on!

[piranha]

1 hour ago, Australian Paleontology said:

Okay so i was able to find out a bit about the Joan Wiffens's Theropod. So the Joan Wiffen Theropod was the first ever dinosaur discovered in New Zealand so there is already our first hint. I was able to hunt down the paper (Molnar, R. E. 1981. A dinosaur from New Zealand. Pp. 91–96 in M. M. Cresswell & P. Vella (eds) Gondwana Five: Proceeding of the Fifth International Gondwanan Symposium. Wellington. A. A., Balkema, Rotterdam.) but i have no idea how to access it. If anyone can help me access this paper or tell him how to do it i would be highly appreciative. Thank you

 

There are numerous Australian institutions that have this publication. Check with your local university and inquire about an interlibrary loan.

The paper is only 6 pages so they should be able to scan a pdf quite easily.

 

[Australian Paleontology]

4 hours ago, dinosaur man said:

I might be able to help on this, it think I’m thinking of the same specimen?  It’s a Theropod toe and the paleontologist that discovered it have been finding more bones there, they think it could actually be from a bonebed, but if they said the way the bonebed is it could actually be from the Cenozoic being the first Non avian Cenozoic dinosaur!  Check out this link 

 especially at the 39:30 part on!

I managed to find this https://www.worldcat.org/title/a-dinosaur-from-new-zealand/oclc/5866367271&referer=brief_results#borrow. The part i was able to read said "is identified as a theropod dinosaur caudal" and since we know both were the first ever dinosaurs discovered in New Zealand, this video directly mentions Joan Wiffen's Theropod, so were on the right track.

 

[Australian Paleontology]

2 hours ago, piranha said:

 

There are numerous Australian institutions that have this publication. Check with your local university and inquire about an interlibrary loan.

The paper is only 6 pages so they should be able to scan a pdf quite easily.

 

I dug up this https://www.worldcat.org/title/a-dinosaur-from-new-zealand/oclc/5866367271&referer=brief_results#borrow but im kinda confsued how to open it. Can someone help????

[dinosaur man]

1 minute ago, Australian Paleontology said:

I managed to find this https://www.worldcat.org/title/a-dinosaur-from-new-zealand/oclc/5866367271&referer=brief_results#borrow. The part i was able to read said "is identified as a theropod dinosaur caudal" and since we know both were the first ever dinosaurs discovered in New Zealand, this video directly mentions Joan Wiffen's Theropod, so were on the right track.

 

Awesome glad I could help  hear the part in Cenozoic none avian dinosaurs?  I found it really interesting!

[Australian Paleontology]

1 minute ago, dinosaur man said:

Awesome glad I could help  hear the part in Cenozoic none avian dinosaurs?  I found it really interesting!

Well we can confirm that Joan Wiffen's theropod was however not cenozoic.

 

However yeah the concept is pretty interesting. The Animals inhabiting New Zealand at the time would have been already inhabiting a cold and arid environment like modern day Antarctica so they were already adapted to life in harsh conditions. Considering New Zealand was on the other side of the world where the asteroid hit (Mexico) the consequences may of been less severe and since they were already prepared a very scant amount may of survived into the cenozoic, however i doubt it.

 

Now that i think about it, i remember finding an Ankylosaur like "footprint" in a cenozoic formation in Australia (Jan Juc). This may be the first indication of a non-avian dinosaur existing outside of the Mesozoic, but it may of just of been a coincidence which i think is highly highly likely.

 

It begs the question though....

[dinosaur man]

6 minutes ago, Australian Paleontology said:

Well we can confirm that Joan Wiffen's theropod was however not cenozoic.

 

However yeah the concept is pretty interesting. The Animals inhabiting New Zealand at the time would have been already inhabiting a cold and arid environment like modern day Antarctica so they were already adapted to life in harsh conditions. Considering New Zealand was on the other side of the world where the asteroid hit (Mexico) the consequences may of been less severe and since they were already prepared a very scant amount may of survived into the cenozoic, however i doubt it.

 

Now that i think about it, i remember finding an Ankylosaur like "footprint" in a cenozoic formation in Australia (Jan Juc). This may be the first indication of a non-avian dinosaur existing outside of the Mesozoic, but it may of just of been a coincidence which i think is highly highly likely.

 

It begs the question though....

Ooh that would be awesome!

[piranha]

11 hours ago, Australian Paleontology said:

I dug up this https://www.worldcat.org/title/a-dinosaur-from-new-zealand/oclc/5866367271&referer=brief_results#borrow 

but im kinda confsued how to open it. Can someone help????

 

 

That link cannot be opened. The listing is only referring to the Molnar paper published within the abstracts and papers volume of the Gondwana Five Symposium. This WorldCat LINK has the list of Australian libraries that have the publication. With any luck, one of holding libraries listed above, turns out to be in your neck of the woods. Contact your local university library and they can arrange to get those 6 pages scanned for you.

 

[Australian Paleontology]

16 hours ago, piranha said:

 

 

That link cannot be opened. The listing is only referring to the Molnar paper published within the abstracts and papers volume of the Gondwana Five Symposium. This WorldCat LINK has the list of Australian libraries that have the publication. With any luck, one of holding libraries listed above, turns out to be in your neck of the woods. Contact your local university library and they can arrange to get those 6 pages scanned for you.

 

I see now, thank you