Shamalama Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 So I'm perusing E-bay and come across these couple of "Fossil Lobe Fin Arcoptergii Devonian" auctions. They are plates with nicely detailed fish fossils supposedly from the Devonian. Are these legit (for the low, low price of $9.99) or fakes? They don't list any site info beyond "Red Hill". In my mind that means a site Pennsylvania where fish bits have been found in Devonian age rocks but I've never heard of whole fish coming out of there in this condition. Any idears? Auction 1 here Auction 2 here -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1nickeless1 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I noticed in Auction 2 that the description lists it in 'very fin detail'. Fish joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 If they are legit, the price is exceptional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_turkey Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 some thing smell fishy around here. -frozen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Don't confuse "opening bid" with "price"... "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Don't confuse "opening bid" with "price"... True, and that's exactly what I did. I once bid on an Oreodont skull started at 24 bucks and ended very expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrocklds Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 the price is about right. they are a chinese fish called jianghanichthys approx 110 MYO. not rare at all. you can find many of them online. Sorry to ruin any of your hopes, Brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smilodon Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 the price is about right. they are a chinese fish called jianghanichthys approx 110 MYO. not rare at all. you can find many of them online. Sorry to ruin any of your hopes, Brock Yes, they look very "Chinesey" to me too. And, there is a reason it's called RED Hill. True Red Hill matrix is, drumroll please, Red!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Fish looks too modern to be Devonian... that is what my gut tells me... PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Lookin' for lobes in all the wrong places... "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Very disappointing auction. The correct spelling on that is Actinopterygii which are ray finned but not lobe finned fish, and much much more recent than what the seller is claiming. Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haddy Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 The seller of both items is apparently is not a fossil collector as they have this disclaimer: We have other items listed, so take advantage of our shipping discount for multiple purchases. Most of our items are sold as collectibles. We find them at Central Florida antique shows, auctions and estate sales. Antique or vintage items may, by nature have flaws and imperfections due to age. While we are not experts on this merchandise, we do our best to describe them as accurately as possible through pictures and descriptions. We do this as a hobby and strive to make our customers happy. If you are dissatisfied in any way with your purchase, please contact us WE WILLL TAKE RETURNS IF WE DO NOT DESCRIB CORRECTLY If you believe that corrections should be made to the item descriptions, you could always contact the seller. They may be thankful for the help (or perhaps not). When I saw Red Hill, I too thought of the PA site. Guess not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamalama Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Yeah, Glad to see that I was right in asking you guys. I figured they were Chinese and thought they looked familiar. Jurassic age, not Devonian seems about right to me also as I didn't see a lobe fin anywhere! And yes, Red Hill material is not only red, it's usually much more incomplete; i.e. isolated teeth, scales and bones. Oh well, good to know my BS radar was operating at full strength. Thanks guys! -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyguy784 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I can't believe they're really from Red Hill Pa. My understanding is that whole fish plates are extremely rare up there, if at all. We should plan a trip up to Red Hill, Dave. There are some constraints on collecting, I believe you're supposed to go only when Ted Daeshel from the Museum of Natural History is there or one of his reps. Not sure how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I used to call those simply 'J' fish cause of the spelling. I bought lots of those a few years ago when I use to do shows. I would by 20 of em for 5 bucks each. Same thing with those lycoptera fishys. Not rare at all. RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smilodon Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 If I remember correctly, they are Eocene just like Green River. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 If I remember correctly, they are Eocene just like Green River. Most on the market are, but the genus is known up to the Pliocene. The taxonomy is a train wreck. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 I agree with Brock. Those are definately Triassic aged fish from China. Articulated Red Hill fish material is extremely rare. I am attaching a picture of what is probably the most complete Lobe Fin ever found in the area. It does not photograph well but I have a two foot section preserving the skull and a good portion of the body. There are also a half dozen antiarch placoderms preserved on the plate. The Lobe Fin species is Holoptychius and the placoderms are Bothriolepis sp. I have also found some rare tetrapod material at this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithologia Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 hello , I agree with ebrocklds . These are chinese fishes and the most often they are called Jianghanichthys hubeiensis (Lei 1987 )wich is the most recent name. here some synonyms: Amyzon hunanensis Cheng 1962 (jr syns= Jianghanichthys hubeiensis Lei 1987; Osteochilus hunanensis Cheng 1962; Osteochilus hubeiensis lei, 1977) I guess these fishes come from Eocene(roughly the same age as the Green River form.), most more recent as devonian .The location is the Hubei province in China (Song Zi "county" ) . Visit My Fossil swap website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamalama Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 I agree with Brock. Those are definately Triassic aged fish from China. Articulated Red Hill fish material is extremely rare. I am attaching a picture of what is probably the most complete Lobe Fin ever found in the area. It does not photograph well but I have a two foot section preserving the skull and a good portion of the body. There are also a half dozen antiarch placoderms preserved on the plate. The Lobe Fin species is Holoptychius and the placoderms are Bothriolepis sp. I have also found some rare tetrapod material at this site. Wow! Great fossils, RC. The plate they are on is so big and complete. When did you collect them? Thanks for the pics. -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyguy784 Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 That's fantastic. When we going Dave? I'll bet we could get phil and Just Bob to go. Wouldn't cost much. What a great trip to finaly get together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sue in ohio Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 If you guys decide on a date for a trip up here...let me know, I live about a little over a half-hour from the site and have drove by it many, many times but have never stopped..I never seem to hit it when anyone is around like Mr. Rowe. I would love to meet all of you if you come up this way and hopefully it will fall on a weekend I'm off work.....Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haddy Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 That's fantastic. When we going Dave? I'll bet we could get phil and Just Bob to go. Wouldn't cost much. What a great trip to finaly get together. DVPS runs at least one trip each year there. $20 annual membership is very inexpensive to be able to join their trips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyguy784 Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 If you guys decide on a date for a trip up here...let me know, I live about a little over a half-hour from the site and have drove by it many, many times but have never stopped..I never seem to hit it when anyone is around like Mr. Rowe. I would love to meet all of you if you come up this way and hopefully it will fall on a weekend I'm off work.....Sue I'll keep that in mind Sue, love to meet you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyguy784 Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 DVPS runs at least one trip each year there. $20 annual membership is very inexpensive to be able to join their trips. Thanks Haddy. I intend to get to the DVPS meeting this month. Maybe I'll meet you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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