ID please: Giant sloth claw (from South Carolina)

[JoeD]

Hi all,

 

I was wondering if anyone is able to identify the species of this giant sloth claw, it was found in the Ashepoo river, ACE basin in South Carolina. Believed to be ~12,000 years old but considering it was found on the river base could be older.

Can get measurements if that would help, it's a UK sterling pound coin in the picture, roughly same diameter as one euro coin or US nickel.

Thanks all!

Edit: 85mm length, 25mm width at base, 35mm height at base

Edited January 6, 2021 by JoeD

[Al Dente]

Are you sure it is sloth? It looks very dense.

[JoeD]

6 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

Are you sure it is sloth? It looks very dense.

Mostly sure, where it was found is know for having giant sloth & mastodon remains as well as primitive paleo Indian tools - open to other suggestions tho

Edited January 6, 2021 by JoeD

[Shellseeker]

1 hour ago, JoeD said:

Mostly sure, where it was found is know for having giant sloth & mastodon remains as well as primitive paleo Indian tools - open to other suggestions tho

Joe,

Welcome to The Fossil Forum.  I love Sloth Claws,  I have found a number of them in my home state of Florida. Florida and South Carolina have mostly a shared history of sloth species

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/108406-ground-sloth-claw/

 

There are many other threads discussing Sloth claws.  You can see them by getting to the TFF "home" page, go up to upper right and perform a search for "sloth claw".  You will get a lot of threads to look at... I would guess that there are only 5 or 6 species of sloth this could be.

However , most look very similar at this small size... and your claw is broken at the attachment end where the most distinguishing features occur.....

@Harry Pristis

[Shellseeker]

Here is one of my claws about the same size of yours 81 mm in length..

 

You have a great acquisition, but I am not positive it is sloth... The line in red is what I would normally call a blood groove,  something predators can have.  I have not previously seen it on sloth claws.  Exciting !!! Who provided the Sloth identification?

 

[JoeD]

8 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

Joe,

Welcome to The Fossil Forum.  I love Sloth Claws,  I have found a number of them in my home state of Florida. Florida and South Carolina have mostly a shared history of sloth species

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/108406-ground-sloth-claw/

 

There are many other threads discussing Sloth claws.  You can see them by getting to the TFF "home" page, go up to upper right and perform a search for "sloth claw".  You will get a lot of threads to look at... I would guess that there are only 5 or 6 species of sloth this could be.

However , most look very similar at this small size... and your claw is broken at the attachment end where the most distinguishing features occur.....

@Harry Pristis

That makes a lot of sense thank you, I didn't think it would be too likely to get a species ID, was hoping there might be a distinctive shape but understand with the size of it. Will definitely be looking through some of the other threads too.

 

Very lucky to live near where you can find them, I would love to be able to find some myself.

[old bones]

I'm not sure why, but I cannot see the pictures...?

[JoeD]

16 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

Here is one of my claws about the same size of yours 81 mm in length..

 

You have a great acquisition, but I am not positive it is sloth... The line in red is what I would normally call a blood groove,  something predators can have.  I have not previously seen it on sloth claws.  Exciting !!! Who provided the Sloth identification?

 

I had wondered that myself as the shape did seem a little different to other claws that I have seen, only identified as a sloth claw by the diver who found it and sold it to me. Not a specialist, just used used to collecting the items in the area.

 

Edit: here's some taken with a different light - 

[JoeD]

4 minutes ago, old bones said:

I'm not sure why, but I cannot see the pictures...?

Here's an imgur link if that helps - https://imgur.com/a/oR1ZZxx

[Shellseeker]

1 minute ago, JoeD said:

I had wondered that myself as the shape did seem a little different to other claws that I have seen, only identified as a sloth claw by the diver who found it and sold it to me. Not a specialist, just used used to collecting the items in the area.

@digit

We fortunately have an expert resource here in Florida. Richard Hulbert.  He is the managing director of the Vertebrate Fossil Research Lab, Museum of Natural History at the University of Florida and can be reached by sending the fossil photos and approximate location in an email.

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/vertpaleo/amateur-collector/fossil-id/

[JoeD]

3 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

@digit

We fortunately have an expert resource here in Florida. Richard Hulbert.  He is the managing director of the Vertebrate Fossil Research Lab, Museum of Natural History at the University of Florida and can be reached by sending the fossil photos and approximate location in an email.

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/vertpaleo/amateur-collector/fossil-id/

Oh that's a great link thank you, will definitely be sending him an email! I attached some more images of the claw in an edit to the above post - tried not to spam the thread with messages

[Shellseeker]

23 minutes ago, JoeD said:

Very lucky to live near where you can find them, I would love to be able to find some myself.

 

I realize that I live is a fossil paradise.

Thanks Joe, but it may be something more exciting !!! I am more suspicious as I see your additional photos..  It is a mystery, Joe enjoy the journey in discovering the animal's identity. Jack

[digit]

If Richard can assign an ID to this using the photos, be sure to report back here so we'll all benefit from the diagnosis.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[JoeD]

10 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

 

I realize that I live is a fossil paradise.

Thanks Joe, but it may be something more exciting !!! I am more suspicious as I see your additional photos..  It is a mystery, Joe enjoy the journey in discovering the animal's identity. Jack

Thank you for the help, definitely intrigued as to what it could be and can't wait to find an answer!

8 hours ago, digit said:

If Richard can assign an ID to this using the photos, be sure to report back here so we'll all benefit from the diagnosis.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

I will do as soon as he replies! Lets hope he recognises it.

[Al Dente]

My guess would be the tip of a dugong rib but I've never seen one with this type of sculpturing of the outside. Maybe an oddly shaped phosphatic concretion?

[JoeD]

"The external shape and anatomy of the fossil does greatly resemble the tip of a large ground sloth claw. But the internal structure is all wrong. Sloth claws have a very cancellous internal architecture, with a lot of open channels and spongy texture. This specimen has a solid internal structure. One possibility is that it is the tip of the root of a mastodon or mammoth tooth. Such specimens would not be remarkable originated in coastal South Carolina. Another possibility is a much older, heavily mineralized specimen. Fossils reworked from Cretaceous deposits are well known to occur mixed together with Pleistocene specimens in rivers of the Carolinas.

 

My advice is to contact the dealer who sold you the fossil and try to get your money back."

This is the response I got from Richard which makes sense, shame about it though.

Thanks for all the help @Shellseeker

[JoeD]

For those interested, I had this response from Sarah Boessenecker over at Mace Brown Museum of Natural History saying a very similar thing (at least about what part of an animal):

"Thank you for sending along clear pictures with a scale! You are right in that this is not a sloth claw; it looks to be the root of a tooth from a cetacean – likely a sperm whale tooth root."

 

[digit]

Yup. Sounds like a Richard response--full of useful information.

 

The tip of a mastodon (or gomphothere) tooth could make sense here. It would be interesting to see a (focused) photo of the tip of this object to see in detail what this looks like. Here, for example is a broken root from a mastodon tooth that I found in the fossiliferous creek that runs through my backyard (try not to drool on the keyboard). You can see that this object is very solid and that the tip does have some openings in it and is not sealed off completely. The odd striations would make more sense for such a root than a sloth claw core which would be more uniform but also less dense looking. Dugong ribs are nice and solid like this but I've not (personally) seen any with this sharp of a point and they too are more round and smooth without much texturing.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

    

[digit]

Simultaneous posts thinking along the lines of tooth root. Seeming much more likely than sloth claw core. If it was sold to you as this, I'd seek a refund (echoing Richard's opinion).

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Shellseeker]

1 hour ago, JoeD said:

For those interested, I had this response from Sarah Boessenecker over at Mace Brown Museum of Natural History saying a very similar thing (at least about what part of an animal):

"Thank you for sending along clear pictures with a scale! You are right in that this is not a sloth claw; it looks to be the root of a tooth from a cetacean – likely a sperm whale tooth root."

 

Wow,  so Sarah is a scientist and wife of Bobby Boessenecker,  a frequent TFF responder and combined represent experts on Marine Mammals around the world. If she believes this to be the root of a sperm whale tooth,  I am inclined to believe her.

 

19 hours ago, JoeD said:

the diver who found it and sold it to me. Not a specialist, just used used to collecting the items in the area.

 

the diver may be innocent of any wrong beyond missing the capability of correctly identifying this specimen. I would not have liked it, but I would have rejected sloth because of the groove and center core... to tell you the truth, I was imagining foot claw from a dinosaur.  They did exist in South Carolina during the Cretaceous ,  but Sarah would have thought of and evidently rejected....

https://www.thoughtco.com/dinosaurs-and-prehistoric-animals-south-carolina-1092099

 

[Coco]

Hi,

 

I didn’t dare ask if Sarah is Boesse’s family. Now I know

 

Coco

[JoeD]

Final resolution: Contacted the seller and they were really nice about it, happy to have the item returned for a full refund and even paying for shipping. They did mention that they held the rest of the claw and this claw tip which seemed to match perfectly (not sure how true that is however, given all the experts saying otherwise)

 

Thanks for all the help everyone, my step-dad bought it for me as a gift and he has no knowledge of fossils, he was really happy with himself for finding a sloth claw for me so I wanted to make sure I had a solid identification of it before I broke the news to him. Took the news well, especially since it fooled me too for a bit aha

[digit]

Have your step-dad look at it this way, he'll get to find you a sloth claw twice now.

 

 

Glad it had a successful resolution. Looking forward to photos when you do get a sloth claw core.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken