Tucson 2010

[Guest Smilodon]

Hi all. Well, Tucson 2010 is over for me. Five days of fun and sun in the desert. This year's report will be fairly short.

It was the best of times; It was the worst of times. Wait, I think somebody else wrote that . Prices were outrageous continuing their multi-year death spiral into bubbledom. I came home with less material for resale than ever. That part was the worst of times.

I've gone to Tucson for 15 years in a row now, so I am pretty jaded. It takes a very special fossil to impress me - 6 inch Megs - a dime a dozen, dinosaur material - pffffft, invertebrates - zzzzzz.

As usual, Mineralien Zentrum's room was just a museum. They hand out paper towels at the entrance, and they don't even allow photographs! Prices for some of their stuff goes well into the $100,000s. Runner up in the shamwow competition, was George Heslep as usual.

Although often there are higher priced fossils for sale, my annual prize for the Coolest Fossils of the show are based on, coolness. Top prize this year goes to Minerlien Zentrum for a death assemblage of about 20 complete placoderms.:startle: Runners up were George's complete mandible of Thylacoleo carnifex

(marsupial lion) and a complete Dorudon (midsize archaeocete whale) mandible from Morocco (the poor fool who bought it obviously doesn't know that we are about to get inundated with archaeocete material from Morocco) and his jaw value is worth half of what he paid for it when he walked out the door. But the first one is always cool nonetheless.

The best of times? Seeing and being with friends - making new ones too. Gosh I just had so much fun with them this year. Oh, and the fossils I bought for myself. I walked into a friend's room and blew all my cash within an hour of my first day there. It was plastic after that. I'll post them as I unpack things. My most precious needed a little prep work and should arrive in a few weeks. My first precious is this Eocene archaeocete molar from Florida.

(assumed to be) Pontogeneus brachyspondylus - long story, but Pontogeneus is considered to be a huge toothed whale, a bit shorter than Basilosaurus, but more massive.

Stay tuned.

[Terry Dactyll]

Smilodon...... that is stunning quality.....well done.... maybe the fossil dealers havent yet heard about the ....'credit crunch'.....

[Roz]

Nice molar!

Why is photo taking not allowed?

Have never heard of that at a fossil show before

but have never been to that one. I am curious...

[Guest Smilodon]

Nice molar!

Why is photo taking not allowed?

Have never heard of that at a fossil show before

but have never been to that one. I am curious...

Two reasons, Roz, although many dealers will still let you take a picture, but I always ask. When I'm selling, if someone asks, I say yes, but then move the item or put it under a table for a while. I've only had one thing of value stolen after somebody took pictures.

1. Mineralien, for example has all advanced collector grade material - much better than museum grade. The owner told me that occasionally he will see one of his specimens show up in books or articles without permission, compensation, or attribution.

2. Nefarious reasons. Collectors will sometimes take a picture of an item, show it to thieves who then distract the dealer and steal it. By the same token, thieves will photograph items and then go thru their list of collectors to see who wants it at a five finger discount price.

Sad but true.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Smilodon

[Frank Menser]

Two reasons, Roz, although many dealers will still let you take a picture, but I always ask. When I'm selling, if someone asks, I say yes, but then move the item or put it under a table for a while. I've only had one thing of value stolen after somebody took pictures.

1. Mineralien, for example has all advanced collector grade material - much better than museum grade. The owner told me that occasionally he will see one of his specimens show up in books or articles without permission, compensation, or attribution.

2. Nefarious reasons. Collectors will sometimes take a picture of an item, show it to thieves who then distract the dealer and steal it. By the same token, thieves will photograph items and then go thru their list of collectors to see who wants it at a five finger discount price.

Sad but true.

Lovely world we live in...

Too bad you couldn't get a photo of that placoderm assembledge.

[Seldom]

1. Mineralien, for example has all advanced collector grade material - much better than museum grade. The owner told me that occasionally he will see one of his specimens show up in books or articles without permission, compensation, or attribution.

2. Nefarious reasons. Collectors will sometimes take a picture of an item, show it to thieves who then distract the dealer and steal it. By the same token, thieves will photograph items and then go thru their list of collectors to see who wants it at a five finger discount price.

Thats sad the lengths people go to steal

[MikeD]

I've never been told no to photgraphs, but I never thought about it from that perspective. I will certainly understand in the future if a dealer says no.

Looking forward to more photos. BTW, if you have a dozen 6 inch megs, I've got a dime!

[mommabetts]

Awesome tooth, can't wait to see other finds posted from the show.

[Phoenixflood]

Glad you had a good time Don, welcome back! The archaeocete molar was a good find!!! It's a KILLER tooth (pun intended) Even with some prep, they are very, very hard to find in that condition

What are the dorudon from Morocco going for now?

[Guest Smilodon]

Glad you had a good time Don, welcome back! The archaeocete molar was a good find!!! It's a KILLER tooth (pun intended) Even with some prep, they are very, very hard to find in that condition

What are the dorudon from Morocco going for now?

Thanks, Russ.

Let me put things in perspective. I had not seen any archaeocete material from Morocco until last year's Denver show in September. George had the one jaw with all the teeth and a single symmetrical molar about 1/3 the size of mine, but it was perfect with hardly any wear. Another dealer had a similar tooth and that was all there was. They both had the same things in Tucson. Now prepare yourself - Neither would take a penny less than $3,000. The more I think about it, the "Durodon" was more likely a Zygorhiza. However, it sold for $45,000. I also saw several dealers with other Moroccan archaeocete material that was just as bad and likely doctored as poorly as Spinosaur and Otodus material in years past and today.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Smilodon

[FossilForKids]

Don

Did you see the ammonite Brock restored for me and the killer stand it was in. He told me he was going to display it there.

John

[Phoenixflood]

..... Now prepare yourself - Neither would take a penny less than $3,000. The more I think about it, the "Durodon" was more likely a Zygorhiza. However, it sold for $45,000. I also saw several dealers with other Moroccan archaeocete material that was just as bad and likely doctored as poorly as Spinosaur and Otodus material in years past and today....

I wouldn't doubt that the price would be that high. One of these days, I'd like to have one in my collection but I think that will not be for a very long time.

Hope you all had fun! I'm sure we will have many more posts about everyones' Tuscon adventures I hope

[Guest Smilodon]

Don

Did you see the ammonite Brock restored for me and the killer stand it was in. He told me he was going to display it there.

John

Sorry, John, no I don't think so. Do you know where he was set up?

[bubonius]

Awesome tooth,wow

[siteseer]

...and a complete Dorudon (midsize archaeocete whale) mandible from Morocco (the poor fool who bought it obviously doesn't know that we are about to get inundated with archaeocete material from Morocco) and his jaw value is worth half of what he paid for it when he walked out the door. But the first one is always cool nonetheless.

Stay tuned.

Smilodon,

I just got back from my Tucson trip. I couldn't get there for the early action, arriving on the 5th and staying until the end. I missed the main show, however.

I saw that archaeocete jaw before it was packed up. It was a great-looking specimen and the most complete jaw I have ever seen of that group of whales. I have seen what one of those looks like unprepped. There are numerous offsets in the bone surface (like faults through rock formations) and the bone is very fragile with each jaw collected in chunks and pieces. The teeth are usually damaged, serrations chipped or gone with a weird reddish translucent gunk applied as a sort of preservative/restoration. While someone might say they were sloppily-collected in the field, but it does look like they would be tough to extract more cleanly.

By looking at the prepped jaw and the offsets, it's obvious George Heslep chose his battles, cleaning off the crud, stabilizing and assembling the jaw, fixing broken teeth. He could've tried to make the bone surface smoother by fixing at least some offsets but that's more prep time (= money) for perhaps not much more aesthetic value.

I would have to disagree with your assertion about an imminent flood of archaeocete jaws from Morocco. I have heard of thousands of shark teeth coming out of that locality and saw piles of them at the show (I've been offered groups of teeth by two collectors getting them wholesale) but only heard about another jaw at the show and it was clearly junky compared to Heslep's according to another collector. Archaeocete remains come out of the limestone quarries around Harleyville, SC but few jaws have ever been up for sale though quite a few teeth have been available. Remains come out of Alabama too but you never see that for sale anymore and I think I've heard of only a couple of teeth floating around. Of course, these whales are found in Egypt but that country does not allow for them to be exported. While more jaws are likely to surface from Morocco/Western Sahara, I don't think there will be that many and then we go back to the prep. If more jaws come out but don't look as good, then that jaw might hold its value (though 45K, if that was the price, does sound like a lot for a jaw of anything). It will be interesting to see what else of this whale material appears in the near-future.