Pinna

[oyo]

2 hours ago, Rockwood said:

I'll even go a step further and say that when anyone believes that rugose coral can't be found above the Permian they are outside the bounds of science.

Just as you can believe what you want, you can say what you want.
What is outside of science is affirming something without proving it. Especially if it's something as far-fetched as what you're proposing.
Enlighten us with your wisdom. Prove what you say or it will just be empty talk to have the last word.

[FranzBernhard]

8 minutes ago, oyo said:

Especially if it's something as far-fetched as what you're proposing.

That´s the point: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." 

Franz Bernhard 

[JohnJ]

I think there are many presumptions being discussed here.  As @Kane mentioned, reworked or transported fossils can be found out of context.  I don't think Dale @Rockwood is proposing in-situ fossils in the wrong stratigraphic range.  However, the exceptions noted would make his statement accurate. 

 

At the same time, @oyo and @FranzBernhard rightly point out the expectations regarding fossils found within their proper stratigraphic range.

 

Yet, my presumptions could be wrong, too.

 

[Rockwood]

For me it's just a matter of staying grounded. I shouldn't have to prove something I didn't say. You are the one calling something impossible. That is what needs to be proven.

[Rockwood]

Coelacanth. I think that proves my concept nicely.

[Kane]

15 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Coelacanth. I think that proves my concept nicely.

Science does not rely on proofs, as Franz pointed out up-thread.

 

That said, you have a very steep hill to climb to reasonably demonstrate the probability of post-Permian rugosa (if that is what you are suggesting). You may wish to enlist the assistance of a professional who specializes in this if you credibly suspect that this is indeed possibly a first of its kind.

[FranzBernhard]

20 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Coelacanth. I think that proves my concept nicely.

No. But it shows that there is always room for surprises. There may be something somewhere out there, there may be nothing. In that case, chances are very, very, very slim, that there is something, but not zero.

 

18 minutes ago, Kane said:

you have a very steep hill to climb to reasonably demonstrate the probability of post-Permian rugosa

That´s it!

 

Franz Bernhard

[JohnJ]

If you are hunting Pleistocene / Cretaceous strata in a metropolitan area where Paleozoic rocks have been used for erosion control, then anomalous discoveries are inevitable. 

[Rockwood]

44 minutes ago, Kane said:

Science does not rely on proofs

Precisely my point.

[oyo]

Well, I think that almost all of us agree except for the specific cases of anomalies in the stratigraphy that have been cited.

Just one small comment, I do think science should be based on verified evidence and proven facts but I could be wrong about this.
Greetings to all.

Edited March 5, 2022 by oyo

[Lone Hunter]

This is getting over my head but I have to jump in here with a few things,  no chance any foreign/erosion rocks were there, not sure pictures do it justice having seen it in person I thought it resembled a Pinna more than anything, lastly I'm a bit confused about rugose, I thought that's what I found there, whatever this is could it be the same?

[Rockwood]

I can't say for sure that it isn't the same, but it does look like an example of the other coral I mentioned in this post. It seems to have more of a recurved look, and the septa are a bit more well defined.

[Lone Hunter]

Your fossil didn't have growth lines, and the ridges appear to be on surface only, that's why I thought Pinna 

[JohnJ]

I don't think the Parasmilia ID is in dispute.

 

Check these out.

[grandpa]

Sometimes when someone is way out on a limb and starts sawing on that limb, it might a good idea to stop sawing and back off the limb.

[abyssunder]

In my opinion, 

The alternation between mountains and valleys (from the first image) suggests that the specimen in question does not appear to be a bivalve.

[Rockwood]

1 hour ago, grandpa said:

Sometimes when someone is way out on a limb and starts sawing on that limb, it might a good idea to stop sawing and back off the limb.

It's preferable to do it the way I do. Put a ladder up against the tree and tie a line from that limb to secure point above and away from it so that the limb swings away. If you don't the distal end of the limb can become a fulcrum and the but will clean you off the ladder.