Texas - Bone flakes

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

I have a question or two on this piece I found today. Of all the pieces I've found this is the ONLY one that has this flaking property to it. It has some weight to it...but the outside is flaking like a buttermilk biscuit.  And I know that a gentleman said that even really old bones don't necessarily have to be fossilized or mineralized...could this be old or were conditions just right for it to do this and perhaps it's a few months to a few years old? I know with the ends missing the mammal might not be able to be identified...but it does have this edge that's broken that I focused on. Found today on a gravel bank in Southeast Texas. 

[GPayton]

I've wondered this exact same thing myself many times and honestly I'm not sure I have an answer for you. Maybe the flaking occurs when a bone has begun being mineralized but hasn't really gotten all the way there yet? 

I'm also not sure if bones fossilize from the inside out or not, although I suspect that they do. That could explain why a bone that feels solid and has the weight to it that you'd expect from a fossil also possesses this sort of flakiness on the outer layers. 

[Brandy Cole]

Generally I expect to see flaking on the modern bones and not the ones that are well mineralized. But I've been told that pleistocene bones here can frequently be not be fully mineralized, so when in doubt about how old something is, you often can only tell for certain by identifying it to an extinct species.

[Brandy Cole]

Since even mineralized bone can flake off, I should add that other characteristics like weight for its size and what it sounds like when you tap it with metal can be good indicators when in doubt.   If it's mineralized, it should be heavier than a similar bone the same size and it should make a clinking sound more similar to rock compared to the almost wooden or hollow sound you hear when you tap modern bones.

[jikohr]

I've dealt with flaking on bones from both Mammoth and Woolly Rhino. It definitely happens on Pleistocene bones and it is really annoying.

[Lorne Ledger]

I'd suggest you get something on there to stabilize the bone before it all flakes away.  Butvar in acetone is a good choice since you can remove it later in clean acetone.  Another option is Elmer's Glue mixed in some water - once dry it can be mostly removed by soaking in ordinary water.  I would avoid things like lacquer or aerosol spray coatings, they cannot be removed later if you need to remove them.  It really depends on the fossil - this bone may or may not be identifiable to the extent of being scientifically important.  Your call

[Harry Pristis]

7 hours ago, Lorne Ledger said:

I'd suggest you get something on there to stabilize the bone before it all flakes away.  Butvar in acetone is a good choice since you can remove it later in clean acetone.  Another option is Elmer's Glue mixed in some water - once dry it can be mostly removed by soaking in ordinary water.  I would avoid things like lacquer or aerosol spray coatings, they cannot be removed later if you need to remove them.  It really depends on the fossil - this bone may or may not be identifiable to the extent of being scientifically important.  Your call

Good advice mostly . . . except for the endorsement of Elmer's Glue.  This bone scrap is not a suitable candidate for treatment with white glue.

 

Here's what 'oilshale' had to say about white glue (wood glue is just another polymer formulation):

"Don't get me wrong - Elmer's White glue is a great stuff for glueing wood and can be also great for "hardening" crumbly fossils!

"But I fully agree with Harry's opinion (even so I am a polymer chemist and my job is to develop white glues and other latices....): I would never use a white glue unless the fossil is wet, crumbly and the substrate is porous and can't be dried before consilidation!

"There is no way to remove this white glue once dried (not even with solvent). It will form a dense polymer layer on the surface without penetrating much into the substrate (white glue are tiny polymer particles dispersed in water with a particle size of around 1µm, so the penetration depth won't be much).

"Butvar, a Polyvinyl butyrate (the company I am working in is also producing these polymers, of course different brand names) in this respect is much better (will penetrate better and can easily be removed by solvents)."

[Lorne Ledger]

@Harry Pristis  Agreed on the white glue, I would never put it on anything that mattered towards my collection.  Just offered up an alternative to Butvar in case Johnny doesnt have access to it.  If you do NOT dilute the white glue and leave it thick, it CAN be removed (along with whatever pieces of bone are stuck in it) by peeling it off the bone.  So I disagree on that portion of your warning, but it would never be my first choice of a stabilizer.  Just trying to offer help.