Post Oak Creek- Mammal and fish teeth (Feb 2022)

[PaleoPastels]

Hello everyone! While I was cleaning out my phone I forgot I had these finds that I would like second opinions on identifying from Post Oak Creek near Sherman, Texas. I found these right before I had to fly out to Iceland so the setup is very messy and was done quickly. I love hunting here, and have a general understanding on most of my finds there which are mostly various shark teeth and lopha oysters. Usually confident in identifying however I never got to go to school for paleontology so I’m still an amateur! Im always so eager to love to learn more about the ancient Cretaceous sea life even if it can’t be my profession.  

Here is the layout! Sorry again it’s so messy! I spilled water.
(Ballpoint pen and cavendish banan for reference) 

 

 

 

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I found a LOT of Ptychodus whipplei that day! I was super happy as this is my *favorite* shark. I came mostly looking for these babies so my attention was focused on searching the gravel for these shapes specifically. Anything else I found was a happy mistake. Never found so many in one trip! Just showing these off really quick! Hopefully they make someone here smile!  

What is the one I have labeled 13?! Never seen it before! 
 

I also found some goblin sharks, squalicorax, and psuedocorax. 
 

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I would like help IDing these mammal looking parts! I understand that there’s probably a bunch of pig and horse farm animals locally that have died… but I wanted to ask about these! I think the long orange one is from a horse(?) that was split in half and not sure what the other bones are from. They feel a little in the lighter side but feel weighty and “stone” enough to be possibly fossilized. I have no idea how to ID what a mammal bone is except teeth! I also think I found the TINIEST arrowhead ever! At first I thought the triangle shape was just a coincidence of a chert fracture but look-there’s chisel marks! Maybe a stone tool that the very tip broken off. Either way I’m glad I kept it! 
 

M1 pig bone?

M2 ??? Mammal tooth

M3 horse tooth?

M4 arrowhead tip!? 

 

 

 

*hopefully* these are enough pictures to help ID these four! So neat to find mammal remains as Ive only found both devonian & cretaceous marine fossils in my life. 

 

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Mystery Swirl! I find this specimen’s shape intriguing. It looks like an internal mold of a snail but looks swirly and not perfectly tube shaped as a snail would stike me as- it looks like a little like a poop! Wondering if this is snail mold or possible coprolite! It doesn’t look straight and as “segmenty” in clumped wads as my shark coprolite from NSR I had ID’d. Im leaning towards snail. I just love that it looks like do-do. 

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I would also love having help ID these Cretaceous finds! Im a familiar amateur with the local Cretaceous stuff but not an expert. I would love to be educated to ID specific species of sharks to help local people I meet here ID their finds! 

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I found 2 interesting fishy looking teeth! Thanks to this forum I found a jaw of Enchodus back at NSR a while ago, this little one reminded me of that! I found this longer looking tooth that I have no idea if its a marine reptile or fish! It’s long and skinny with long striations all around it and round all around. The tip is broken.  **Would LOVE to know if theres a trick to instantly knowing a fish tooth from a marine reptile tooth. I think I read on another thread a while back that one of them lacks a layer of something in the enamel but I’m probably wrong. 
 

F tooth 1- teenie Enchodus? 
F tooth 2- saw shark ? 

 

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Need help with P 13. It reminds me a little of a ptychodus tooth but I couldn’t find anything in the pinned ptychodus ID thread that looked like it. Maybe a worn P. Mortoni , but maybe possible it could be something else entirely! Check the first 2 photos I posted for size ref and more photos of it. I regret not taking a pic of the back.  I know most of my ptychodus are P. whipplei (the common ptychodus to find at Post Oak!) but the others after P11 are new finds to me and not in any of my favorite references.

 

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Lastly- would like to know if these are cretolamna or leptostyrax and how to easily ID the two!  I use the fossils of texas book as a reference and some of them look so similar its hard to tell them apart for me.  I usually find mostly the common but awesome goblin shark teeth (scapanorhynchus) but every once and a while I find some that look like these. Im leaning towards a bunch of them being cretolamna. *might be a few broken or worn goblin shark mixed in here

 

Thanks for taking the time to read all of this! I hope the pictures were enjoyable! Id absolutely love to learn more about Cretaceous marine life when I get back to Texas from Iceland.  (I went to the Heard museum and Perot right before I left!)  

 

** Additional photo of arrowhead looking piece that uploaded out of order: 

 

 

 

***Bonus pictures from that day! I can assure you this area is not totally picked over  I found these near the Bridge as shown in the photo. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by AmmoniteDelight
*added file pictures to the thread

[GPayton]

I'll try and take a crack at a couple of these: 

- The third mammal tooth is a fragment of a artiodactyl tooth (specifically the praeprotocrista, a segment of the outer enamel going up the front of the tooth vertically), probably bison or cow 

- You're right on the money with the two F teeth - the first one is a rostral tooth from a sawfish (Ischyriza mira) and the second is an Enchodus fang 

- P1 through P11 of the shark teeth in the second picture are all Ptychodus whipplei, the others look like they could be different species

- S1 and S2 are both too large to be Squalicorax like the other teeth you placed in the S category (which are probably Squalicorax falcatus by the way, with S6 looking more like S. curvatus) - I'm thinking Cretoxyrhina mantelli for them 

- With the exception of V18 (which I think is Cretalamna appendiculata), I think the other large teeth in that category are probably Cretodus crassidens 

- L4 is a lateral tooth from Scapanorhynchus raphiodon 

- All the teeth labeled as G are Scapanorhynchus raphiodon anterior teeth 

- Unfortunately, I don't think you can label the vertebrae as anything more specific than just shark/ray 

Hope that helps! Pretty impressive finds you've got there for a single trip to the creek; makes me want to go back myself. Some of those Ptychodus teeth are bigger than any I've ever seen from that location. 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by GPayton

[Fossildude19]

@AmmoniteDelight

Please post your photos directly on the Forum, rather than linking to a hosting site.

If the links go bad, the topic will become useless.  

 

[PaleoPastels]

1 hour ago, Fossildude19 said:

@AmmoniteDelight

Please post your photos directly on the Forum, rather than linking to a hosting site.

If the links go bad, the topic will become useless.  

 

Omg I had no idea that could happen! I only just now after reading this saw the file paperclip icon at the bottom. I didnt see one at first thats why I used bb code.   Im working on editing the new photos with the text to go with them right now, unfortunately it uploaded my pictures out of order! LOL Doing everything from a tiny smartphone as I dont have a computer but hopefully it cones out okay! 
 

Thank you for the info! 

[PaleoPastels]

7 hours ago, GPayton said:

I'll try and take a crack at a couple of these: 

- The third mammal tooth is a fragment of a artiodactyl tooth (specifically the praeprotocrista, a segment of the outer enamel going up the front of the tooth vertically), probably bison or cow 

- You're right on the money with the two F teeth - the first one is a rostral tooth from a sawfish (Ischyriza mira) and the second is an Enchodus fang 

- P1 through P11 of the shark teeth in the second picture are all Ptychodus whipplei, the others look like they could be different species

- S1 and S2 are both too large to be Squalicorax like the other teeth you placed in the S category (which are probably Squalicorax falcatus by the way, with S6 looking more like S. curvatus) - I'm thinking Cretoxyrhina mantelli for them 

- With the exception of V18 (which I think is Cretalamna appendiculata), I think the other large teeth in that category are probably Cretodus crassidens 

- L4 is a lateral tooth from Scapanorhynchus raphiodon 

- All the teeth labeled as G are Scapanorhynchus raphiodon anterior teeth 

- Unfortunately, I don't think you can label the vertebrae as anything more specific than just shark/ray 

Hope that helps! Pretty impressive finds you've got there for a single trip to the creek; makes me want to go back myself. Some of those Ptychodus teeth are bigger than any I've ever seen from that location. 

 

 

Thank you so super much! I wrote down all of this on scratch paper and going to tally the guesses as more people look at this thread! Judging from your avatar you also like sharks! 
 

I had no idea there could possibly be too big a size for squalicorax! 
 

Thanks for the info about the bison tooth! It definitely looked like a large herbivore tooth and going through google images of other teeth I can totally see how that was a long piece of that broken off! I cant help but wonder if the other pieces are close to where I found it!  
 

Yes these ptychodus whipplei finds sure were some whoppers! What is crazy is that they were just right on top like shiny pennies to my trained eye! We went to Braums to celebrate afterward for sure! My very first time at this site I found 3, and I refuse to leave until I find at least 3 every trip. 
 

Thanks again for all the info about the shark species! With latin names, other members opinions, and more experience Im sure I will be able to identify more species and help others! 

Edited April 25, 2022 by AmmoniteDelight

[ThePhysicist]

Very nice finds, I'm jealous of those Ptychodus!

20 hours ago, GPayton said:

S1 and S2 are both too large to be Squalicorax like the other teeth you placed in the S category (which are probably Squalicorax falcatus by the way, with S6 looking more like S. curvatus) - I'm thinking Cretoxyrhina mantelli for them 

Group 'S' all look like Squalicorax. They can be that large or larger. Check for serrations - that's the clincher. 

20 hours ago, GPayton said:

With the exception of V18 (which I think is Cretalamna appendiculata), I think the other large teeth in that category are probably Cretodus crassidens 

These smaller, narrower teeth are probably not C. crassidens. They probably are a different species, I'm still looking into it.

[Jared C]

nice finds! Jealous of that sawfish rostral tooth.

On 4/24/2022 at 11:44 PM, AmmoniteDelight said:

Lastly- would like to know if these are cretolamna or leptostyrax and how to easily ID the two!  I use the fossils of texas book as a reference and some of them look so similar its hard to tell them apart for me.  I usually find mostly the common but awesome goblin shark teeth (scapanorhynchus) but every once and a while I find some that look like these. Im leaning towards a bunch of them being cretolamna. *might be a few broken or worn goblin shark mixed in here

Some of these are Scapanorycnhus sp. , look closely at the root. If it has that vertical slit in the middle (nutrient groove), then it's a Scapanorynchus rear tooth. Some Scapanorynchus teeth also have double side cusps.

 

Cretodus has wrinkling at the base of the blade on both the labial and lingual sides. I usually notice it better on the lingual side. A big Cretolamna and small Cretodus can share similar diagnostic traits otherwise, so the "wrinkling" is usually my quick go-to for ID.

 

 

Below - I'm very curious about #14 actually. Can you post a couple more images from that angle that are better lit and crisper? I have a hunch already but don't want to call it early. Other angles would be nice too, in addition. A few more photos of 12 and 13 would also be cool.

On 4/24/2022 at 11:44 PM, AmmoniteDelight said:

Need help with P 13. It reminds me a little of a ptychodus tooth but I couldn’t find anything in the pinned ptychodus ID thread that looked like it. Maybe a worn P. Mortoni , but maybe possible it could be something else entirely! Check the first 2 photos I posted for size ref and more photos of it. I regret not taking a pic of the back.  I know most of my ptychodus are P. whipplei (the common ptychodus to find at Post Oak!) but the others after P11 are new finds to me and not in any of my favorite references.

 

 

[PaleoPastels]

4 hours ago, Jared C said:

nice finds! Jealous of that sawfish rostral tooth.

Some of these are Scapanorycnhus sp. , look closely at the root. If it has that vertical slit in the middle (nutrient groove), then it's a Scapanorynchus rear tooth. Some Scapanorynchus teeth also have double side cusps.

 

Cretodus has wrinkling at the base of the blade on both the labial and lingual sides. I usually notice it better on the lingual side. A big Cretolamna and small Cretodus can share similar diagnostic traits otherwise, so the "wrinkling" is usually my quick go-to for ID.

 

 

Below - I'm very curious about #14 actually. Can you post a couple more images from that angle that are better lit and crisper? I have a hunch already but don't want to call it early. Other angles would be nice too, in addition. A few more photos of 12 and 13 would also be cool.

 

 

 Thanks so much for the info about the lines and wrinkling on some of the teeth!  If I ever find another saw shark tooth rostrum maybe we can trade something!  They are cool but not what I look for so they are happy accidents! 
 

You’re in luck- I happen to have my beloved ptychodus with me in a glass jar! ( I also have my mosasaur tooth from Morocco  ) All my other fossils are back home safe! These are the cleanest I can get atm, its been soooo cloudy here. Theres *some* sun today in the window! I tried to play with the contrast, sharpness, and brilliance. Some flash photos some not! Phone charger tip for reference because I don’t think many in US knows the size of OMNOM bars. 
 

I still have no idea about 12 and 13 still but 14 kind of looks like a P. whipplei to me. 

[PaleoPastels]

13 hours ago, ThePhysicist said:

Very nice finds, I'm jealous of those Ptychodus!

Group 'S' all look like Squalicorax. They can be that large or larger. Check for serrations - that's the clincher. 

These smaller, narrower teeth are probably not C. crassidens. They probably are a different species, I'm still looking into it.

Thank you  much! I feel like the larger teeth also might be Squali teeth, they just seem like bigger specimens! 
 

 

So I saw back in Texas a book called “ Fossil Sharks and Rays of Texas.” spiral-bound in a gift shop. Its like $80USD but does anyone recommend it? I could definitely have my spouse drive up and get it it’s totally worth it for identifying Cretaceous fossils! I wasn’t able to look inside it to know how if it was a good book find or not. 

[ThePhysicist]

6 hours ago, AmmoniteDelight said:

So I saw back in Texas a book called “ Fossil Sharks and Rays of Texas.” spiral-bound in a gift shop. Its like $80USD but does anyone recommend it? I could definitely have my spouse drive up and get it it’s totally worth it for identifying Cretaceous fossils! I wasn’t able to look inside it to know how if it was a good book find or not.

It's a good book, but some of it is outdated or inaccurate - so take some things it says with a grain of salt. The Dallas Paleo group has it on their website for much less.

[Jared C]

12 I think is just a very worn down whipplei. The photos aren't close enough for me to make a guess about 13 yet. The reason I ask about 14 is because I suspect I see the diagnostic chevrons of Ptychodus atcoensis.That would be interesting because it would imply that POC also cuts through an Atco exposure, which is just younger than the Eagle Ford. However, with the new photos of 14 I still can't be sure, as they're at an oblique angle

[PaleoPastels]

9 hours ago, ThePhysicist said:

It's a good book, but some of it is outdated or inaccurate - so take some things it says with a grain of salt. The Dallas Paleo group has it on their website for much less.

Holy smokes that is significantly cheaper! Thank you for sharing, I had no idea they had an online shop! Im interested in that v2 NSR fossil book too! I can ship to my Texas address!  Ive been meaning to meet up with a DPS event but with my work schedule I never had an opportunity. 

You’re so super helpful, thank you! 

[PaleoPastels]

15 hours ago, Jared C said:

12 I think is just a very worn down whipplei. The photos aren't close enough for me to make a guess about 13 yet. The reason I ask about 14 is because I suspect I see the diagnostic chevrons of Ptychodus atcoensis.That would be interesting because it would imply that POC also cuts through an Atco exposure, which is just younger than the Eagle Ford. However, with the new photos of 14 I still can't be sure, as they're at an oblique angle

 

That would be super interesting if this was the case!   As beautiful as Iceland is I wish I could be fossil hunting in NSR and POC so bad right now! The fossil hunter itch/bug right now is so bad! 
 

I will do my absolute best to take as many photos as I can both today and tomorrow of the grooves. It’s been cloudy and surprisingly still dark to take super bright photos but for science sake I will do what I can! I switched over to a new phone that doesn’t take macro  but luckily I have a clip on macro lense on the way in the mail for close photos. I just took these, until I can get the new lense and the sun comes out this is what I have playing with flash: 

 

These are 13 and 14, at this point I’m 99% sure that 13 is a broken P. mortoni (the grooves survived!) but 14 has me super intrigued now too. Im so used to different shapes of whipplei found in the creek any ptychodus I find with the “nipple” I assume is likely to be a whipplei. Ive found a grand total of 27! 
 

*Photos in the spoiler- theres a bunch! 
 

 

 

Book light to the rescue!  It’s so cloudy!  

 

EDIT: sunshine! Hopefully these help you out! I understand your probably need new photos of it looking straight down at the grooves to see the chevron. 
 

 

 




 

Edited April 27, 2022 by AmmoniteDelight

[PaleoPastels]

I hope this isn’t overkill but I got a cheap micro-lense clip on and I think these are the best close-ups I was able to get of #14! 

Click to “hidden” button see a bunch more photos! Hopefully we can get 14 ID’d!  

 

 

 

#14












More Closeups! 











 

Here is what I think was 12(?) I can kind of see how it could be a worn whipplei… usually they have these “dots” that show underneath right where they are damaged. (Forgive me as I don’t know the scientific word for them yet!)  I see a couple of dots in the second photo of it. However there’s no where as much of them as I would expect if they were a damaged tooth… so maybe its a different species or one from a whip places on a different part of the mouth. I think it looks nice and wrinkled! I usually dont find them shaped like this. 




 

Here are the “dots” in case anyone is wondering what the heck I mean. This is a chipped whip tooth:


If theres a proper word for these spots I’d love to know!

 

Here are some of what I think is a damaged mortoni! It looks like the groove area of the tooth survived and it became broken all sides around it. Half of the surface is also gone! Poor thing. 










 

hopefully these are decent! Im not a great macro photographer. 

 
 

 

 

14







 

Another of 12

Edited April 27, 2022 by AmmoniteDelight
Adding spoiler tags

[Jared C]

Awesome, I'm fairly comfortable making the ID of P. atcoensis for 14. I've never found one so I don't have anything in my collection to compare to, but it matches well with online photos. Cool find!

Edited April 28, 2022 by Jared C