digit Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 Curiosity and an eye for the unusual are good to start with. With an open mind and the addition of a little knowledge of what fossils are not, you'll soon be able to distinguish between 'odd rocks' and fossils containing traces of past living organisms. Cheers. -Ken 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfinn0319 Posted April 25, 2023 Author Share Posted April 25, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 Lumpy, and looks to have been eroded smooth at some point in time by water or wind. It itself is not a fossil (despite a curious shape) nor do there appear to be any smaller fossils embedded in this rock. While fossils tend to be interestingly shaped, being interestingly shaped is not sufficient to be a fossil. Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 On 4/21/2023 at 10:29 PM, Kfinn0319 said: I was taking a walk with my daughter this evening and these caught my eye as odd. You and your daughter could have a photography contest. She might enjoy it...the best focused picture wins. It's tough to tell you anything about the rock type in these images. As they say, 'the devil is in the details'. 1 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fin Lover Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 @Kfinn0319, are you taking these pictures with a smart phone? I think you need to step further away from the item you are photographing. Also, if you are using a smart phone, some have the option to touch the screen where you want it to focus. So, get the rock in the shot and then touch it on the screen to help the camera know where to focus. See if either of those help. 2 Fin Lover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfinn0319 Posted April 25, 2023 Author Share Posted April 25, 2023 I appreciate the suggestions. I just can't seem to figure this camera thing out. Sorry. I will ask my daughter to take some pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfinn0319 Posted April 25, 2023 Author Share Posted April 25, 2023 It has a very suggestive shape with some very suggestive details to me. Like others, it's details that I can't seem to her in the photos. This one, I will be the first to admit, could very well be Pareidolia. The pic that I put a black circle on looks like possible broken bone to me. Like it was snapped off. It's hard to see, but there is a wall of thin black around the outside. It has a somewhat jagged and uneven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, Kfinn0319 said: It has a very suggestive shape with some very suggestive details to me. Like others, it's details that I can't seem to her in the photos. This one, I will be the first to admit, could very well be Pareidolia. The pic that I put a black circle on looks like possible broken bone to me. Like it was snapped off. It's hard to see, but there is a wall of thin black around the outside. It has a somewhat jagged and uneven. Unfortunately, you really need to solve the issue of focused photos before any discussion of details. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 40 minutes ago, Kfinn0319 said: This one, I will be the first to admit, could very well be Pareidolia. I believe this is indeed the case. You've got an eye for unusual shapes but you now need to train that perception to recognize the actual types of fossil material that is common in your area. Again, I heartily suggest that you see if you can attend a club meeting if there is one nearby. Getting some mentoring from those experienced with actual fossils in your local area will bring you up the learning curve and distance you from pareidolia. https://www.rockandmineralshows.com/location/rock-clubs/arizona 35 minutes ago, JohnJ said: Unfortunately, you really need to solve the issue of focused photos before any discussion of details. The younger generation seems to be most adept at taking smart phone photos these days. I'd suggest the poster's daughter give it a try. Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfinn0319 Posted April 26, 2023 Author Share Posted April 26, 2023 My daughter took these next photos and she did much better than myself. I'm sorry to beat a dead horse here, but please hear me out. The only reason I am posting this again is because I really absorbed everything you all have offered from your knowledge and experience and directed it at everything I have found. I then, painstakingly, did my research to filter through everything that Pareidolia may have led to me gathering. Although I do agree with most everything you have told me, I was able to find some answers for some of your questions on this one. This is not a challenge to anyone I'd of this. On the contrary, it is a compliment to ask of you, as I have shown the ability to find the evidence to back up my claim. Possibly, lol. Bone structure and symmetry are what I am trying to show here, so I have posted the original photo (that is credited to my lovely daughter) along with markups I created to show my view. Again, please don't get frustrated with me on this, I am not trying to argue. If you say I am still experiencing Pareidolia on this item, I will then set it aside and never bother you with it again. I trust you all and your experience in said topic much more than my own. I respect, and even admire, all of you. I am simply asking you to look at it as a possibility and see if any questions have been answered. If not then so be it. I will not argue with you at all. I will take your word and move on. I had to step back and objectively look at all my stuff and try to find any evidence to support what I was seeing and have since disqualified many of my finds as simply oddly shaped rocks. That was difficult for me to do, lol, as I am a very stubborn and prideful individual. This one I feel, however, there is evidence to support my claim. You will also remember that it's the main one I gave you all hell over. It's only because I really feel something in this one, but if it's still not there for you guys then I'm done with it. I only ask that you try really hard to see what I'm showing as it still has a ways to go before any positive id. That's only if you think it's worth the trouble. Thank you very much for your patience and understanding. Thank you also for taking the time to help me with this. Bone structure& symmetry. Here we go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfinn0319 Posted April 26, 2023 Author Share Posted April 26, 2023 If it is this way that left leg was pushed out and if it were to be pushed back in place, which obviously can't happen, it would have symmetry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfinn0319 Posted April 26, 2023 Author Share Posted April 26, 2023 Please remember I have some emotional connection with this one. Have some compassion if you're still at the same conclusion. Just kidding. I can take it. Just need closure if that's what you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fin Lover Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 You seem to still be highly focused on shape, which will not change any opinions. Other than shape, what leads you to conclude that these are bone? Is bone texture visible (I don't see it in these photos)? If you see it, we will need better photos of it. 1 Fin Lover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfinn0319 Posted April 26, 2023 Author Share Posted April 26, 2023 I researched pelvic and hip bones and the darkened sections that I outlined, from what I see, are similar to some therapod fossil skeleton. It appears to me that the structure is there, although not in an obvious form. I admit it's not, by any means, clear and decisive. If you stand by your conclusion, I will accept it. I'm trying to dig up a nice digital camera my dad gave to me before he passed, but I don't remember what box it's in. It will take much better photos than this device I'm using now. I'm also researching more techniques for taking better photos. I admit it's not my area of expertise. If you feel I may have presented enough to say even maybe, that is good enough for me. If not then so be it. I will move on. Thank you for giving it a look again though. I know it has been a contentious rock, to say the least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fin Lover Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 I am honestly giving it another look and trying to see what you see, but I don't think that anyone will feel that you have presented any new information or evidence in these photos. I'm not sure what bone structure being present but "not in an obvious form" means. I have done what you asked and tried to consider the possibility of what you have proposed, but I just don't see it. As has been suggested before, I think you will need a professional to look at this in person in order to put your mind at ease. 1 1 Fin Lover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyw Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 Unfortunatly I’m still just seeing rocks here…. Animal hip bones are made up of seperate bones not one mass. Heres a picture of a real skeleton zoom in to the individual parts that you have marked. Hip, neck, legs etc..maybe it will help you see the diferences. ( pic from the royal ontario museum ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Kfinn0319 said: I had to step back and objectively look at all my stuff and try to find any evidence to support what I was seeing and have since disqualified many of my finds as simply oddly shaped rocks. That was difficult for me to do, lol, as I am a very stubborn and prideful individual. There is an unlimited supply of 'genuine', 'certified', 'verified' "petrified" creatures and creature parts to be found online. Real fossils are exceptionally rare among them and are usually different than the creature expected. Shapes trigger pattern recognition and beliefs can override the necessity for additional evidence. It can be jarring when one overcomes this type of perspective. However, it is a credit to one's ability to learn when reason starts to lead our thoughts and conclusions. I'm pretty sure this is true, 'cause I read it on the prize pack inside an old box of Cracker Jack. 2 1 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyw Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, JohnJ said: I'm pretty sure this is true, 'cause I read it on the prize pack inside an old box of Cracker Jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 Kfinn, a great many earth materials have a shape and possess general characteristics that are pretty equivocal at the handscale. Quite a lot of data factor into determining what an earth structure is or has been . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfinn0319 Posted April 26, 2023 Author Share Posted April 26, 2023 Thank you so and I am absorbing and working on putting the Pareidolia into check and seeing things objectively. It's tough, but that is why I appreciate all the advice given from the people with more experience. I mean that wholeheartedly. Thank you. That being said, I have switched devices in which I take photos. The photos I am posting are not trying to say anything except, is this higher quality and resolution? Again, this is just asking if these photos are more acceptable for the forum. I am not trying to push this again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 These are quite good photos, and a significant improvement. 1 2 ...How to Philosophize with a Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfinn0319 Posted April 26, 2023 Author Share Posted April 26, 2023 I have to say that these are so much better than what I was posting. I am so sorry for those horrible photos I posted before. I didn't realize how bad they were. Dang guys, I am so very sorry for all my previous photos. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 Much better on the photos. Now, you just need to find some fossils to photograph. We all make mistakes, are human, and need to learn. It's okay, and we appreciate your efforts to continue to try to get good photographs for us. We all had to start somewhere. 5 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 IPFOTM -- MAY - 2024 _________________________________________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfinn0319 Posted April 26, 2023 Author Share Posted April 26, 2023 Looking forward to posting new photos of something else now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfinn0319 Posted April 26, 2023 Author Share Posted April 26, 2023 Seriously! My other photos were ridiculous before. I am so sorry. I had no idea they were that bad. I am old fashioned and I am still figuring out ask the new stuff. I don't have any social media accounts. This is the only forum if which I am a member. I'm getting there. Again, sorry and thank you so for your patience. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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