Globidens/Igdamanosaurus differentiation

[North]

Is it possible to id between Moroccan Globidens phospaticus and Igdamanosaurus aegyptiacus teeth?

Or does the separate teeth go as Globidensini indet?

[Fossildude19]

@jnoun11

[jnoun11]

hi north

to me the morphodiversity of durophageous mosasaurs, didnt need so much species.

if you want make differentiation ,you must having a complete set maxillary teeth and dentary teeth intact.

the globidens seems to have heterodonti more than idgamosaurus,but the specimen figured for idgamosaurus is poorly preserved.

it seems idgamosaurus teeth are more like crocodile teeth, without the apical nubbin.

i will no said something over the scientist.

 

https://www.palass.org/sites/default/files/media/publications/palaeontology/volume_34/vol34_part3_pp653-670.pdf 1991

https://hal.science/hal-01063581/document 2013

 

 

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/C46E27EA8D7616041B068E1B3277E51F/S0016774600020953a.pdf/durophagous_mosasauridae_squamata_from_the_upper_cretaceous_phosphates_of_morocco_with_description_of_a_new_species_of_globidens.pdf     2005

 

extract of the publication of bardet et al 2005

 

Comparisons - Assignement of these teeth to the genus Globidensis beyond doubt on account of their having low and bulbous crowns with a strongly swollen base and a wrinkled enamel
surface (Russell, 1975; DeBraga & Carroll, 1993; Lingham-Soliar, 1999).
We here refer to Globidens phosphaticus nov. sp. teeth matching the various morphotypes described above and recorded from Maastrichtian phosphates of Syria (Bardet et al., 2000),
Jordan (Avnimelech, 1949; Arambourg et al., 1959; Mustafa & Zalmout, 2001; Bardet & Pereda Suberbiola, 2002), Negev (Raab, 1963), Egypt (Leonardi & Malaroda, 1946; Churcher,
1988), Angola (Telles Antunes, 1964; Lingham-Soliar, 1999) and Brazil (Price, 1957).

These teeth have been attributed by the above authors to Globidens fraasi Dollo, 1913, G. aegyptiacus Zdansky, 1935, G. cf. alabamaensis Gilmore, 1912 and Globidens sp.
Globidens fraasi has lately been synonymised with Carinodens belgicus (see Schulp et al., 2004), and the genus Igdamanosaurus was erected for G. aegyptiacus (Lingham-Soliar, 1991).

On the one hand, the teeth from Morocco, Middle East, Angola and Brazil differ from those of Carinodens and Igdamanosaurus.

On the other hand, teeth of Globidens alabamaensis and G. dakotensis differ from the Moroccan ones, in having a spherical cross-section, a small symmetrical apical nubbin or point, faint sulci or none at all, and fairly smooth enamel (Russell, 1975, pis. 2-3, 'type 1'; Lingham-Soliar, 1999,pi. 5, fig. 7, 'type 1'). These species are restricted to the Campanian of North America; there is a single record from the Campanian of Europe (Dollo, 1924; Russell, 1975).

[North]

Thank you for your answer.

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

Have a look here. It is my understanding that while Globidens phosphaticus has rather globular teeth with sulchi and a nubbin at the top, which become extended into a more inverse tear-dorp shape towards the front of the jaw, Igdamanosaurus aegypticus has teeth that look, in many ways, like a stubby/shorter Prognathodon currii, lacking sulchus and the constriction at the base which globidensini do have. As such, these teeth are quite distinct from one another. The fact that you're confused about their distinction is simply because most vendors these days incorrectly use the names interchangeably.

[North]

36 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

 Igdamanosaurus aegypticus has teeth that look, in many ways, like a stubby/shorter Prognathodon currii, lacking sulchus and the constriction at the base which globidensini do have. As such, these teeth are quite distinct from one another. The fact that you're confused about their distinction is simply because most vendors these days incorrectly use the names interchangeably.

Thank you.

That is very true. Both names occure as much so I cant really say have I even seen the real Igdamanosaurus tooth.

 

So if I understood correctly, Igdamanosaurus tooth would be shaped more like tooth I have here and less like an classic mushroom?

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by North

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

2 minutes ago, North said:

Thank you.

That is very true. Both names occure as much so I cant really say have I even seen the real Igdamanosaurus tooth.

 

So if I understood correctly, Igdamanosaurus tooth would be shaped more like tooth I have here and less like an classic mushroom?

 

 

Correct. This particular specimen, however, seems more like P. currii, I'd say. And, in fact, I'm not sure I've ever seen a true Igdamanosaurus aegypticus tooth either. Which means that either they are very rare in Morocco, or they should actually be reclassified as P. currii, as the main distinguishing factor between the two I've been able to establish is just height. I therefore suspect the latter may be true.

[North]

1 hour ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

This particular specimen, however, seems more like P. currii, I'd say. And, in fact, I'm not sure I've ever seen a true Igdamanosaurus aegypticus tooth either. Which means that either they are very rare in Morocco, or they should actually be reclassified as P. currii

Yes. It is quite large tooth, so it is most likely P. currii.

 

Really? if you have not seen one, I think I should do same than with xenodens and stelladens, that I skip them to be too hard to obtain at the moment.

Which leaves Hainosaurus and Eremiasaurus me to find. And rechecking one chunky mosasaurus tooth. Should have done it earlier but putting on the display have taken my time. 

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

59 minutes ago, North said:

Really? if you have not seen one, I think I should do same than with xenodens and stelladens, that I skip them to be too hard to obtain at the moment.

 

Yeah, the only specimen that might potentially be Igdamanosaurus aegypticus that I know of is the one I posted in this thread. But its identification is contentious, so I wouldn't even claim Igdamanosaurus is even found in Morocco. Which, of course, is not the case for Carinodens minalmamar, Xenodens calminechari and Stelladens mysteriosus, all three of which are confirmed as having been found in the phosphates - although finding specimens on the market is indeed near impossible. I've seen a couple of Stelladens mysteriosus in private hands so far, but haven't seen either of the other two...

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

1 hour ago, North said:

es. It is quite large tooth, so it is most likely P. currii.

 

And, actually, I don't think it's the height or size that really forms the differentiation between P. currii and I. aegypticus, but rather the width to height ratio, which would be greater in P. currii.

[North]

33 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

 

And, actually, I don't think it's the height or size that really forms the differentiation between P. currii and I. aegypticus, but rather the width to height ratio, which would be greater in P. currii.

Sorry about that. I pictured Igdamanosaurus as relatively small mosasaur. I should not have made that assumption with my limited information.

 

I think I have seen single carinodens tooth on the market. I potentially got one by pure luck.

Im hoping that Stelladens teeth would increase in the future.

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

1 minute ago, North said:

I think I have seen single carinodens tooth on the market. I potentially got one by pure luck.

 

The Carinodens teeth most commonly on the market these days (and, yes, their numbers have significantly increased to the point where you can now even get jaw sections) are actually Carinodens belgicus, not Carinodens minalmaram, which has labiolingually even narrower teeth...

[North]

12 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

Carinodens belgicus, not Carinodens minalmaram

Whoopsie. I did not pay enough attension.

I did not notice you were talking about C. minalmamar. Ones I have seen are indeed C. belgicus.