Help needed to ID this fish vertebra found in central FL

[Fossil E Yes]

Thanks in advance. Any help you can give this newbie will be appreciated!

 

I found this on east coast of central Florida, about a mile west of the Indian River Lagoon. It weighs about 10 grams.

 

Most of the vertebra is hard like stone. Except on two of the sides, those cream color areas are like very densely packed powder. I've scraped away a lot of it and am wondering if I should try to clean it all out. Does an ultra sonic cleaner help with an item like this?

 

Also, the concrete like deposits that are filling the openings. Can I aggressively clean those holes out?

 

Any chance it's a xiphactinus?

[Fossildude19]

Unfortunately, fish vertebra are not generally diagnostic to species, or even genus.  

I think the best that can be said is that it is a bony fish vertebra.

[Fossil E Yes]

Thanks Tim!

 

I'll view all those positive IDs of similar vertebra I see online with a skeptical eye from now on.

 

Any chance a rough estimate of how old it might be, or probable size of the fish could be given?

[jdp]

I think this is actually shark.

[Fossildude19]

@Al Dente  @MarcoSr

[Fossil E Yes]

That's interesting jdp.

I haven't found good info for determining bony from non-bony vertebrae. Can you describe what to look for? Or, point me to a source.  

[Al Dente]

1 hour ago, jdp said:

I think this is actually shark.

I think so too. Paired holes on the top and bottom are typical of several types of shark centra. 

[Fin Lover]

Shark was my first thought yesterday, but I didn't feel qualified to disagree with Tim about it.  

Edited July 21, 2023 by Fin Lover
Fixed grammar

[Fossildude19]

13 minutes ago, Fin Lover said:

Shark was my first thought yesterday, but I didn't qualified to disagree with Tim about it.  

 

I am no expert. Please, question! I have lots to learn still. 

[digit]

On 7/20/2023 at 4:55 PM, Fossil E Yes said:

Any chance it's a xiphactinus

Not in Florida--we don't have surface formations that date back to the Cretaceous. The oldest we get is Eocene (like the Ocala Limestone).

 

It is a worn scyliorhinoid type shark vertebra:

 

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/gallery/image/12117-shark-vertebral-centra/

 

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[MarcoSr]

3 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

@Al Dente  @MarcoSr

 

It is hard to say for sure with just pictures.  I think it is a shark vertebra but there are also a number of possible bony fish species that have similar vertebrae.

 

Marco Sr.

[digit]

The vert is rather worn which makes ruling out some of the larger bony fish difficult from images alone. It does seem to have the two slots on the top edge where the cartilage of the neural arch would insert and the two matching slots on the bottom for the hemal arch (toward the tail) or the transverse processes (if it was a trunk vert).

 

Most large bony fish verts I've seen from Florida tend to have a lot more structure going on along the outside of the centrum. On a worn vert this would likely be more difficult to distinguish. To see some images of Snook verts from the Montbrook site in Florida, you can click this link and scroll about halfway down the page. You can click on the images to enlarge them.

 

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/montbrook/blog/the-fishes-of-montbrook/

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Shellseeker]

5 hours ago, Fossil E Yes said:

I haven't found good info for determining bony from non-bony vertebrae. Can you describe what to look for? Or, point me to a source.  

You might be interested in this thread,  packed with info and references...