Priscarcara, Fish, Green River, Wyoming, 40cm (body axis)

[RodX]

Hello,

 

I'm from Austria (Europe). And this is my first time here on the forum. When I was 10 years old, in addition to the dozens of bones, I also found a cave bear canine tooth (tip with end of enamel: almost 4cm with root 6cm) in the dragons cave near Mixnitz in Styria. I never made such a great find again: that was the end of my short excavation career. 

In the last years I've only bought small things: trilobites, amonites and this week I stumbled upon the fish. 

 

I bought the petrified fish as a gift for a special occasion.

 

Indicated from the dealer: fossilized fish (Pricacara liops), Green River, Wyoiming, USA, Tertiary, Eocene, approximately 42 million years.
Size Fossil: 40.5 cm (I measured the  body axis, not the matrix).

Matrix (rock slab): 45,5 cm (length, upper longer edge) x 28,5 cm (average)

 

At first Priscacara liops seems wrong to me because it is smaller. In't it? Priscacara serrata grows to about 37 cm tall?! And unfortunately I don't know exactly how big the Priscacara hypacanthus will get. BTW: In my opinion the body shape doesn't fit either.

Question 1: Which fish is this actually?
Question 2: It seems to me that the beige matrix (plate) was helped with paint. Please see the photos with the arrows. In one place, paint or a piece of rock seems to have chipped off (as long as it was just beautified), that's not so tragic for me. 
Question 3: Is the fish a real fossil, in your opinion?

 

So that you can get an idea, I have put up unedited photos (except for the arrows + text). I also photographed the back of the matrix (stone slab) and also the edge; also a few detailed shots.

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Greetings,

Rod

[RJB]

This is Phareodus

 

RB

[Fossildude19]

The fish is a real Phareodus encaustus.  Nice example, too.

The "paint" area looks more like a plaster repair of the matrix, to me.

 

The chip is of no concern - there may be something fossilized underneath it, that caused the orange coloration. Likely a fish scale.

All in all, a very nice fossil.

[RodX]

Thank you very, very much Tim!

 

A Phareodus encaustus (Phareodus genus); I just looked it up: a very nice fish - I've seen it before: that's the one with the big teeth. Now I learned the meaning of Phareodus = "to have tooth". You never stop learning ;-)

 

A plaster repair of the matrix: that's fine! That's why a hot needle couldn't penetrate. (I used it some years ago the last time & acetone, before buying a trilobite). 

Can I go over the filler areas with sandpaper - or would that be sacrilege?

I'm not up to date on how visible repairs should or should be.

 

Fish scales is most likely the case. It is exactly the same color as the fish scales of the Phareodus encaustus above the pectoral fin area. Nice :-)

 

Regards,

Rod

 

PS.: And also thank your very much Crab Guy! Great help :-)

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by RodX

[SPrice]

Here's mine which I collected last month from a quarry in Wyoming. This is both the negative and the positive plate. The Phareodus is quite disarticulated or "exploded".  You can see the matrix and fossil colors match yours well. 

No prepping, painting or repairing has been done on mine. It is just as it was split open but drier and a little bit lighter shade from drying out. Hope this helps. 

I'm brand new at collecting fossils...so the more seasoned collectors will provide the best Intel on yours.

Steve

 

PS the lighting is with and without cell camera flash. Top image is accurate colors. My garage was dark this morning

 

 

[RodX]

Very nice one :-)! Especially if you 've got both pieces. The extra fish on your matrix takes it all up a notch!

True: it actually has the same color as my Phareodus encaustus; also the matrix matches. Astonishing!

 

What kind of guy is this (the extra fish)?

 

Your is about 25-30 cm (body axis)?

 

Do you know how old your Phareodus encaustus is?

Mine (but not for long, 'cause it's a present - but it will stay in the flat :-) was  said to be 42 million years old, but it also went by a false name (Priscacara liops) - a much smaller, presumed schooling fish.

Painting was also not added; I testet with acetone and a swap. And the lighter ;-)

 

I'm still thinking about how we'll attach the fish to the wall (the stand is an interim solution). I'm looking for a very discreet fastening made of stainless steel or I'm also considering using Sikaflex, an industrial adhesive (but if the worst comes to the worst I can only get rid of it with a cutting wire).

How will you attach yours? I'm collecting ideas.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by RodX

[Fossildude19]

22 hours ago, RodX said:

What kind of guy is this (the extra fish)?

 

The extra fish is a Knightia eocaena.

 

BTW, @SPrice your fish is displayed upside down in your photos.

(Sorry if you already knew this!)

 

Correct orientation:

 

[RodX]

Thanks @Fossildude19!

 

@SPrice

Fascinating when you have the positive and the negative of such a great fish ensemble.

 

Regarding fossil attachment: I'm puzzling over how we can attach the fish to the wall as invisibly as possible.
Are there subtle stainless steel clips? I haven't found anything about it in the forum and haven't been able to find anything (nice designed - contemporary modern if possible) on the Internet either.

 

Gluing with Sikaflex industrial adhesive is an admittedly brutal method, as I can only get the fish off the wall with a cutting wire. I don't think that's a good solution. 

 

Similar to hanging up a heavy painting, I thought to myself last night:

is gluing an aluminum plate to the back of the matrix with the Sikaflex industrial adhesive a good idea? Attaching a 1 mm stainless steel cable to the left and right on the plate (through drill holes) - please see the sketch.

Then I could hang the Phareodus encaustus invisibly (sic!) and remove it; like a painting. Sikaflex industrial glue also equalizes the level (great when converting expedition vehicles ;-), because it has to be applied thickly anyway: 3-4 mm of glue should usually be between the aluminum plate and the matrix. The 1 mm thick stainless steel cable routed through the drill holes should not cause any problems. 

Should work? Or are there better solutions?

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by RodX

[Fossildude19]

1 hour ago, RodX said:

Thanks @Fossildude19!

 

@SPrice

Fascinating when you have the positive and the negative of such a great fish ensemble.

 

Regarding fossil attachment: I'm puzzling over how we can attach the fish to the wall as invisibly as possible.
Are there subtle stainless steel clips? I haven't found anything about it in the forum and haven't been able to find anything (nice designed - contemporary modern if possible) on the Internet either.

 

Gluing with Sikaflex industrial adhesive is an admittedly brutal method, as I can only get the fish off the wall with a cutting wire. I don't think that's a good solution. 

 

Similar to hanging up a heavy painting, I thought to myself last night:

is gluing an aluminum plate to the back of the matrix with the Sikaflex industrial adhesive a good idea? Attaching a 1 mm stainless steel cable to the left and right on the plate (through drill holes) - please see the sketch.

Then I could hang the Phareodus encaustus invisibly (sic!) and remove it; like a painting. Sikaflex industrial glue also equalizes the level (great when converting expedition vehicles ;-), because it has to be applied thickly anyway: 3-4 mm of glue should usually be between the aluminum plate and the matrix. The 1 mm thick stainless steel cable routed through the drill holes should not cause any problems. 

Should work? Or are there better solutions?

 

 

 

 

@RJB  has a number of good methods for hanging fish on walls.

[RodX]

@Fossildude19 Thank you!

[SPrice]

Hi Rod,

Sorry for the late reply. I concur with Tim about RJB having some great ideas for hanging fossil on the wall. I follow his YouTube videos. Here's one about hanging fossils. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS1MfV3f7gQ

 

Thanks Tim, for correctly rotating my images. Yesterday was a bit upside down for me. Our family laid a patriarch ( my wife's father) to rest and thoughts were on that. 

 

So far I'm only using stands or easels to display my fossils. When I get to prepping the larger plates of the GRF fish I will be in the same boat of coming up with the best hanging method.

Steve

[Fossildude19]

17 minutes ago, SPrice said:

 

Thanks Tim, for correctly rotating my images. Yesterday was a bit upside down for me. Our family laid a patriarch ( my wife's father) to rest and thoughts were on that.

 

 

Sorry for your loss, Steve. My condolences to you and your family. 

[RodX]

Hi Steve,

my sincere condolences to you and your family!

 

Have you got an idea how old your fish is?

 

Thanks for the link from RJB Steve. RJB has also sent me 2 great other links on hanging fishes (fossils) invisible to a wall. I learned from them. I will now use the 2 compound resin instead of the industrial adhesive - but that has to wait until the beginning of November because I won't give the gift until then. The resin I've got at home - I used it for repairing my kamado grill and some flower pots; so no need to buy something else.  I also will try to get french cleats - the ones with the holes, I've seen at RJB's video on the beginning and there I'll attach my stainless steel cables with the press clamps. Thanks @RJB --> https://youtu.be/iQPmmiO__lM I like your office room. WOW! Just great!

 

Yeah! Hanging fossils invisible and secure is a little bit of a challenge for me. But now I know how to do it. If french cleats are difficult to get, then I will simply use aluminum angles that only protrude 5mm on one side (cut them to size with the flex if necessary) and then drill 2 holes in them on the left and right, attach my 1 mm stainless steel cables (or wire if I'm lazy) and I'm done - hopefully! Great inspiration from RJB. Thanks again Tim for the info.

 

Rod

[SPrice]

Hi Rod,

 

Regarding the age of Green River Formation fossils : According to the Smithsonian - The age of the Green River Formation is within the Eocene period and these fossils specifically date back to around 50 million years before present. Each rock usually contains an abundance of insects and floral material, primarily leaves. Also found are spiders, downy feathers, flowers, reptiles.

[RodX]

Hi Steve, 

 

thank you for the information. So I guess, the "split fish" layers and the 18 inch layers are around the same age (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Would be nice to know from which layer my Phareodus encaustus is coming from. 

On 9/23/2023 at 12:51 PM, RodX said:

Indicated from the dealer: fossilized fish (Pricacara liops), Green River, Wyoiming, USA, Tertiary, Eocene, approximately 42 million years.

I've learned a lot in the last few days: No it's a Phareodus encaustus and about 50 million years old. Quite a difference.