Video - how to work with fossils as a career

[mamlambo]

I've wanted to make a video about some of the jobs in paleo for a while now. I was lucky enough to interview 12 professionals from across New Zealand, Australia, the United States and UK about how they got started in their roles. I tried to have a mix of different roles but I have only scratched the surface!

I would love to hear about other potential careers I could highlight!
 

Edit: Here are the links to the different segments in the video:

01:10 Sophie Kelly (just completed masters)
04:54 George Young (just completed masters)
06:56 Adele Pentland (PhD candidate)
17:02 Felix Marx (Curator vertebrates)
22:23 Alan Tennyson (Curator vertebrates)
27:06 Cheng-Hsiu Tsai (Associate professor)
32:18 Andrew Cuff (Postdoc researcher)
37:52 Nic Rawlence (Associate professor)
44:54 Carl Mehling (Senior museum specialist)
57:08 Mary Chitjian (Archeologist)
01:04:27 Keely Sweeny (Fossil prepper & business owner)
01:09:57 Al Mannering (Fossil prepper)

 

Edited February 2 by mamlambo

[Josh_irving]

What a great idea, I can't wait to check out the video. 

 

Just out of curiosity do you HAVE to have a degree or formal education to be considered a paleontologist? I have seen people without a formal education be referred to as 'amateur paleontologists' however the term 'amateur' implies that they are new or less skilled. although I have met 'amateur paleontologists' who can hold their own to those with degrees.

 

 

[mamlambo]

Good question! I have asked the same thing and I haven't been able to get a clear answer yet, most of the time it refers to someone with a degree but perhaps it is more about your job? 

[Yoda]

@mamlambo

Looks interesting 

I will watch it over the coming weekend 

[Jaybot]

The question on only people with degrees having the right to be called a paleontologist is interesting to me.  Here in the states, we have some dinosaur hunters (that do it legally for their living)  that are possibly even more knowledgeable than most paleontologists with a degree.  In my mind, just because they got their knowledge from somewhere other than a university should not mean they can't be called a 'paleontologist'.

[Fossildude19]

10 hours ago, Josh_irving said:

What a great idea, I can't wait to check out the video. 

 

Just out of curiosity do you HAVE to have a degree or formal education to be considered a paleontologist? I have seen people without a formal education be referred to as 'amateur paleontologists' however the term 'amateur' implies that they are new or less skilled. although I have met 'amateur paleontologists' who can hold their own to those with degrees.

 

 

 

That is why I prefer the term "Avocational Paleontologist".  I study quite a bit, and know quite a bit about the fossils I collect, and the environments that formed them.

I know a fair bit of stratigraphy, a bit of geology, and some anatomy/biology.  I am an amateur, but only because I don't have a formal degree in paleontology. 

[Yoda]

32 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

 

That is why I prefer the term "Avocational Paleontologist".  I study quite a bit, and know quite a bit about the fossils I collect, and the environments that formed them.

I know a fair bit of stratigraphy, a bit of geology, and some anatomy/biology.  I am an amateur, but only because I don't have a formal degree in paleontology. 

I would second this. 

 

I don't have any formal paleo training. 

 

But plenty self taught - books, internet and of course this forum 

Edited February 1 by Yoda

[Brevicollis]

Very interesting and informative video!

I bet it took a lot of time to find paleontologists to interview and make a video about it . 

I want to become a paleontologist myself, so this video was very interesting and helpful at the same time for me .

[jpc]

Avocational Paleontologist is term that better describes most folks on here.

 

 

[FossilDAWG]

Interesting video!

Something I noticed right away is that the Bachelor's degree seems to be 3 years in New Zealand, vs 4 years in the US and Canada.  I don't know many people who completed a Master's in only 2 years, 3 seems more normal in the US and Canada, given the coursework and then completing a thesis.  So the process through to completing a MSc seems to be 2 years faster in New Zealand.

 

That reminds me of something I was aware of as a PhD student.  In the biological sciences, back in the 1980s & 1990s anyway, people in Europe were generally under 30 when they finished their PhD, but in Canada and the US it was pretty common to be into your 30s.  In my case, 4 years undergrad, 3 years MSc, 5 years PhD, 3 years postdoc, 3 years research scientist before getting a faculty job.  Too long, I think.

 

OK I watched the whole video, and it is really well done.  Highly recommended for anyone who is thinking about a paleo or paleo-ish career.

 

Don

[Josh_irving]

6 hours ago, FossilDAWG said:

Interesting video!

Something I noticed right away is that the Bachelor's degree seems to be 3 years in New Zealand, vs 4 years in the US and Canada.  I don't know many people who completed a Master's in only 2 years, 3 seems more normal in the US and Canada, given the coursework and then completing a thesis.  So the process through to completing a MSc seems to be 2 years faster in New Zealand.

 

That reminds me of something I was aware of as a PhD student.  In the biological sciences, back in the 1980s & 1990s anyway, people in Europe were generally under 30 when they finished their PhD, but in Canada and the US it was pretty common to be into your 30s.  In my case, 4 years undergrad, 3 years MSc, 5 years PhD, 3 years postdoc, 3 years research scientist before getting a faculty job.  Too long, I think.

 

OK I watched the whole video, and it is really well done.  Highly recommended for anyone who is thinking about a paleo or paleo-ish career.

 

Don

 

 

Not sure how it is in NZ but for us Aussies a bachelor's degree is 3 years. you can do an honors project (mini PHD) that goes for one year after woods. Masters is usually two but if you did an honors year than the master's is only additional year. PHD is roughly around 4 years. I have been told that a PHD is America is around 8 years which is likely why most PHD are in there 30s?????

[FossilDAWG]

I don't want to divert this thread too much away from discussion of the video, but I need to respond to a couple of @Josh_irving's comments.

 

Back when I was an undergrad in Canada in the late 70s you could do a 3 yr BSc, but that was a terminal degree.  You could not go on to grad school.  To qualify for grad school you had to do a 4th year.  That degree was called "BSc with honours" (Canadian spelling BTW).

 

It's pretty insulting to call a 4th undergraduate year a "mini PhD".  There is no comparison between the two degrees.

 

In Canada and the US a master's degree requires a full year of coursework plus completion of research leading to a thesis, which usually is expected to result in, or be equivalent to, a published paper in a peer reviewed journal.  There is no way all that could be done in one year, so I assume in Australia a MSc must involve no coursework, or much less research.

 

In Canada and the US the standard (in the sciences anyway) is that a masters will produce one published paper, and a PhD will produce a minimum of three peer reviewed papers in decent journals, on top of a lot of coursework.  It's interesting, and unfortunate in my opinion, that standards vary so much between educational systems.

 

Better to go to school in Australia if you can I guess.

 

Don

[Kane]

And it remains that way in Canada today, as Don explained (I consider myself fortunate that my journey from undergraduate to doctorate “only” took me 10 years, but one of the incentives of foregoing luxuries like sleep is that graduate funding, pending type and source, eventually runs out). 

[Josh_irving]

49 minutes ago, FossilDAWG said:

I don't want to divert this thread too much away from discussion of the video, but I need to respond to a couple of @Josh_irving's comments.

 

Back when I was an undergrad in Canada in the late 70s you could do a 3 yr BSc, but that was a terminal degree.  You could not go on to grad school.  To qualify for grad school you had to do a 4th year.  That degree was called "BSc with honours" (Canadian spelling BTW).

 

It's pretty insulting to call a 4th undergraduate year a "mini PhD".  There is no comparison between the two degrees.

 

In Canada and the US a master's degree requires a full year of coursework plus completion of research leading to a thesis, which usually is expected to result in, or be equivalent to, a published paper in a peer reviewed journal.  There is no way all that could be done in one year, so I assume in Australia a MSc must involve no coursework, or much less research.

 

In Canada and the US the standard (in the sciences anyway) is that a masters will produce one published paper, and a PhD will produce a minimum of three peer reviewed papers in decent journals, on top of a lot of coursework.  It's interesting, and unfortunate in my opinion, that standards vary so much between educational systems.

 

Better to go to school in Australia if you can I guess.

 

Don

 

 

 

Just want to clarify a few things,

 

In Australia, the Honours project is post grad not undergraduate. I had no intention of being disrespectful by calling it a "mini PHD" but that's just how we refer to it in Australia as it is like a PHD (you do your own research and produce a "thesis") but only goes for one year and not 4 or 5. 

 

You can do a masters in one year ONLY if you have done an honors project. That is because you have already done one year of research (honors project) and then you just have to do one year of coursework. 

Edited February 2 by Josh_irving

[FossilDAWG]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

It's clear the degrees are very different if we compare Australia to the US and Canada.  It takes a lot more work, and an additional 2 years or more, to earn the same degrees (BSc + MSc) in Canada and the US.  Interesting.  I'd have thought there would be more similarity across the board.

 

Don

[FossilDAWG]

To get things back on track, anybody who is thinking about a career in paleontology should watch @mamlambo's video to get an idea of the range of options.

 

Don

[mamlambo]

11 hours ago, Brevicolis said:

Very interesting and informative video!

I bet it took a lot of time to find paleontologists to interview and make a video about it . 

I want to become a paleontologist myself, so this video was very interesting and helpful at the same time for me .

It took a bit of time working out the time-zones and lining up the interviews. Editing the video took the most time though, finding the right images to show and make sure I credited the right papers 

 will be making another video so if you would like to see anything specific in the next video, let me know!

[Josh_irving]

24 minutes ago, mamlambo said:

It took a bit of time working out the time-zones and lining up the interviews. Editing the video took the most time though, finding the right images to show and make sure I credited the right papers 

 will be making another video so if you would like to see anything specific in the next video, let me know!

 

Maybe you could a video in regard to people who work with fossils but are not necessarily 'paleontologists'. For example, Fossil preparators, people who collect fossils in the field or even palaeo artists??

 

[mamlambo]

39 minutes ago, Josh_irving said:

 

Maybe you could a video in regard to people who work with fossils but are not necessarily 'paleontologists'. For example, Fossil preparators, people who collect fossils in the field or even palaeo artists??

 

Here are the people in this video:

01:10 Sophie Kelly (just completed masters)
04:54 George Young (just completed masters)
06:56 Adele Pentland (PhD candidate)
17:02 Felix Marx (Curator vertebrates)
22:23 Alan Tennyson (Curator vertebrates)
27:06 Cheng-Hsiu Tsai (Associate professor)
32:18 Andrew Cuff (Postdoc researcher)
37:52 Nic Rawlence (Associate professor)
44:54 Carl Mehling (Senior museum specialist)
57:08 Mary Chitjian (Archeologist)
01:04:27 Keely Sweeny (Fossil prepper & business owner)
01:09:57 Al Mannering (Fossil prepper)

I definitely want to interview some fossil collectors and artists in the next one!

[FossilNerd]

On 2/1/2024 at 11:55 PM, mamlambo said:

I definitely want to interview some fossil collectors and artists in the next one!

I’ll throw a vote in for Ray Troll in the artist category. 

BTW… Very cool video.   

Edited February 4 by FossilNerd