johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) Welp... the river is still up... can even see the banks yet. Haven't been out in a long time and more rain is expected. I did see a sliver of gravel poking thru the water so I had to wade out to it today and found a few things. The river went up to almost 40 feet and stayed that way for some time so when it all goes back down to about 7... I expect to find some really good stuff. I found this little bone today. Thought gator vertebra but after a search it didn't match. Then I saw a thread where @Shellseekerhad found a small bone and mine might be similar. Could this be a tail bone? Did you ever get a match for yours? I think it was left at possible cat, deer, horse? Or... could this something else? Thanks for any thoughts. Size is 1.25" in length Beaumont Formation Edited February 9 by johnnyvaldez7.jv 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Hunter Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Texas is feast or famine with the rain, creeks still high here too. I would have guessed beat up gator vert also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 (edited) @Lone Hunter I saw this picture online of gator verts and the shape is similar except for the dorsal parts missing on mine... and I couldn't really see where on mine it would have been. I don't see any broken edge or missing bone on the side where it would have been. Plus I don't know the size of the verts compared to mine. Edited February 9 by johnnyvaldez7.jv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Hunter Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, johnnyvaldez7.jv said: @Lone Hunter I saw this picture online of gator verts and the shape is similar except for the dorsal parts missing on mine... and I couldn't really see where on mine it would have been. I don't see any broken edge or missing bone on the side where it would have been. Plus I don't know the size of the verts compared to mine. Yeah that's why I said beat up but I see your point. It just strikes me as the end of a tail but it also vaguely looks like long toe bone. The experts will have to solve this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Looks like a worn phalanx to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Maybe a tapir medial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) So when they are worn down I start looking for what I can rule out. Camelid Bos Equus So because your articulation ends are basically one socket, I think you can rule out these three for phalanx. Deer would be my next go to. Closer. Got the size right but the proximal pocket doesn’t match. Could still be option if the boarder of the proximal end was worn to flat… - yours seems too round for this match though. Interestingly, if this one’s too flat for your ID , Tapir will be much wider. I don’t know of what antelope species you’d have had but could be a lead. So unfortunately, next stop on this train for me is pigs. Hogs more specifically. Peccary too but in Florida it’s always modern hog. Texas could be different. Sorry that’s not conclusive but we know a lot about the bone now from what it’s not. Unfortunately, I’ve got to go to work so more looking later!! Jp Edit: had an idea. The various topography in phalanx articulation surfaces is because of gravity. They need a puzzle fit to hold everything together. Now, take away gravity and you don’t need those. We’re are there mammals without gravity?!? Edited February 9 by Balance Throwing a Hail Mary to the end zone… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 Thanks @Balance. One end of mine is more round than the other. In Shellseekers' thread on his bone from an earlier post in 2021... Harry had suggested turtle. This could be that. There aren't any real clear articulated surfaces. The gravity idea... never considered it. Makes sense. Eliminating possibilities is a really good method for trying to ID a bone. When you can confidently say what's its not makes the remaining choices much easier to deal with. In this image there could only be a couple of possibilities. Mine isn't as slim as most of these appear to be with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 The search continues!! 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearLake Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 My money is on tail bone, and given the size, I'd say horse or cow (and similarly sized relatives) are good options. In your pictures #4 and 5, I think you can see whats left of the two ridges that run along the length of the vertebral body on many tail bones. I don't think the articulation surfaces or general shape work for most phalanges, although I'm sure with some looking you might find a somewhat reasonable match if you put enough erosion on the one in question. Here is a modern horse tail Here is a modern cow tail. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 Thanks! I see it could be any of those. Tail bone appears to be the right ID. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 21 hours ago, johnnyvaldez7.jv said: Welp... the river is still up... can even see the banks yet. Haven't been out in a long time and more rain is expected. I did see a sliver of gravel poking thru the water so I had to wade out to it today and found a few things. The river went up to almost 40 feet and stayed that way for some time so when it all goes back down to about 7... I expect to find some really good stuff. I found this little bone today. Thought gator vertebra but after a search it didn't match. Then I saw a thread where @Shellseekerhad found a small bone and mine might be similar. Could this be a tail bone? Did you ever get a match for yours? I think it was left at possible cat, deer, horse? Or... could this something else? Thanks for any thoughts. Size is 1.25" in length Beaumont Formation Went to sleep early last night. Hunting today... I recall the bone I found looks VERY similar to yours. I can not recall the resolution. It would help my memory a lot if you provide a link to my Fossil ID thread... Jack The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 @Shellseeker https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/119099-1st-of-3-toebones/#comment-1307041 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 35 minutes ago, johnnyvaldez7.jv said: @Shellseeker https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/119099-1st-of-3-toebones/#comment-1307041 I think your tooth and my tooth are exactly the same... same length , same basically flat ends... @ClearLake nails it in my thread, I have labeled my find as Horse... @Balance The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearLake Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Thanks for that reminder, I totally forgot about that older thread. I have to do a better job of organizing my pictures so I'm not always running out to take pictures of the same thing! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, ClearLake said: Thanks for that reminder, I totally forgot about that older thread. I have to do a better job of organizing my pictures so I'm not always running out to take pictures of the same thing! Oh, dear Now that I made it positive (again) in my mind for Horse, I ran across this Gallery image 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I think Jack may have cracked the code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearLake Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Shellseeker said: Oh, dear Now that I made it positive (again) in my mind for Horse, I ran across this Gallery image 23 minutes ago, Brandy Cole said: I think Jack may have cracked the code. I would be a bit cautious on getting too certain on caudal vertebrae down to species without having some pretty specific characteristics to go on. Just look at the variability in the vertebrae from one animal along the length of the tail in my pictures of horse and cow above. There just are not a lot of diagnostic features on the caudals. Wear and tear adds another complicating factor. Maybe knowing what fauna are present in a formation could help, but if you have a mixed bag like river gravel deposits, I think you are best to go with mammal caudal and use size to narrow the choices (but even small size doesn't rule out as much as large size does). Just my two cents. Edited February 10 by ClearLake grammar 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Beaumont Fm.... what age is that? My first guess was mosasaur finger bone but it looks like all the TX folks who know what the Beaumont Fm are throwing mammal bones about. The two shots of the ends are clearly vertebral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Hunter Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Pleistocene 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 2 hours ago, ClearLake said: I would be a bit cautious on getting too certain on caudal vertebrae down to species without having some pretty specific characteristics to go on. I agree that's wise. Got a little ahead of myself. @jpc I believe the area this was found is mio-plio-pleistocene with most finds being Pleistocene. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 I'm not sure if any mosasaur material has made it this far south... but I've found quite a variety of mammal material. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) Thanks, Brandy Cole. no mosasaurs, then. Edited February 11 by jpc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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