Florida Turtle Carapace, and Three-Toed horse?

[ccajoro]

Howdy!

Went to the Bone Valley Experience last year in May, being in the Miocene of Hardee County, Florida. (My first time in Florida)

 

I found a lot of interesting things that I had never found before then: drum fish, pycnodont, pufferfish, ray, dugong, whale, shark, turtle, etc.

 

Of those finds I finds I will highlight the two mentioned in the title. Thanks for your time!

 

 

 

Among all the turtle scutes I gathered, this is the largest chunk of turtle I found.

I'm very curious as to what species it could be, and if some of those marks are all or partly from different sharks that bit it.

Your thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next one is this guy! I was hoping it could be a three-toed horse, but it more likely is just a normal Equus incisor.

What do you think?

 

[Fossildude19]

Not sure you can say much about the random chunk of "turtle" bone.

No real identifying characteristics.  It does look like tooth marks, but I am not well versed in predation marks. 

 

The horse tooth - we need to see a picture of the chewing surface.

It is better to place the item on a flat surface, (rather than holding in hand) and take pictures from all sides, with a ruler for scale.

[Shellseeker]

Well,  not scientific but at some size point, I stop thinking land turtle and start thinking Giant Tortoise (Hesperotestudo sp) or Sea Turtle... 3x4 inches might qualify. @digit

 

On the possible 3 toed,  Fossildude is absolutely correct... we need more...  Here is a thread where one of our experts demonstrated his bonafides on Tridactyl horse teeth.  

 https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/141794-what-horse-species-is-this-tooth/#comment-1494570

 

[jpc]

And I am thinking.... what makes you think it is turtle?  The internal structure looks more mammalian.  Bone Valley is Miocene, right?  Could it be elephantoid?  Having said that, I know nothing about giant land tortoises found in FL.    

[Shellseeker]

1 hour ago, jpc said:

And I am thinking.... what makes you think it is turtle?  The internal structure looks more mammalian.  Bone Valley is Miocene, right?  Could it be elephantoid?  Having said that, I know nothing about giant land tortoises found in FL.    

Not Land turtle,  too small. Mostly I get trained by the % of what I see.. The BoneValleyFossilFarm is about 150 feet from the west back of the Peace River.  I have only been there once and do not have a representative sample,  but I have heard form those who have that Turtle/Tortoise carapace is a frequent find. There are tons of mammal bones in SW Florida but most of it is not flat and large. It certainly could be Sloth,  Rhino, some whale bones, and Elephantoid  bones, but my 1st impression for 3x4 inch flat bone fossil tends to be Giant Tortoise.  I also thought the groove 

I also wondered about the groove...

 

Jp, I am a long way from thinking Tortoise is the only possibility, easily could be from a Mammoth scapula or many other choices,  just reacting to the arrival rate of specific sizes and shapes of fossils that have come my way over 15 years... I would say Tortoise sort of leads the pack with 30%...

[jpc]

and my main thinking was based on the other side... the internal view of the bone.  This thing is 3 by 4 but I would argue that based on what is missing, it is not flat.  The groove, though, is puzzling.  Again, my experience is in older mammal and turtle material... 

[ccajoro]

14 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

Not sure you can say much about the random chunk of "turtle" bone.

No real identifying characteristics.  It does look like tooth marks, but I am not well versed in predation marks. 

 

The horse tooth - we need to see a picture of the chewing surface.

It is better to place the item on a flat surface, (rather than holding in hand) and take pictures from all sides, with a ruler for scale.

Got it, thank you. I'll get better pictures when I can of the horse tooth.

[ccajoro]

7 hours ago, jpc said:

And I am thinking.... what makes you think it is turtle?  The internal structure looks more mammalian.  Bone Valley is Miocene, right?  Could it be elephantoid?  Having said that, I know nothing about giant land tortoises found in FL.    

I hadn't thought of elephant yet, like Mastodon, Mammoth or Gompothere.

It is Miocene. The manager had suggested to me that this is turtle

[ccajoro]

12 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

Well,  not scientific but at some size point, I stop thinking land turtle and start thinking Giant Tortoise (Hesperotestudo sp) or Sea Turtle... 3x4 inches might qualify. @digit

 

On the possible 3 toed,  Fossildude is absolutely correct... we need more...  Here is a thread where one of our experts demonstrated his bonafides on Tridactyl horse teeth.  

 https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/141794-what-horse-species-is-this-tooth/#comment-1494570

 

Ooo giant tortoise or sea turtle sound awesome. Do you think those are teeth marks then on the shell?

[Shellseeker]

16 hours ago, ccajoro said:

Ooo giant tortoise or sea turtle sound awesome. Do you think those are teeth marks then on the shell?

 

16 hours ago, ccajoro said:

Ooo giant tortoise or sea turtle sound awesome. Do you think those are teeth marks then on the shell?

I am traveling for a week and will have little time or opportunity To respond. 

On your question, not likely . alligator looks like punch circle sand Shark are usually narrow grooves equidistant apart.