Most complete Stegosaurus "Apex" is about to be sold at an auction

[Brevicollis]

Hello, I got some sad news...

The most complete Stegosaurus specimen named "Apex" is about to be sold at auction at the Sotheby's auction house in New York.

 

This specimen was found in 2022 by so called "commercial paleontologist", Jasoon Cooper, who almost immediatly began working with the auction house to detail the specimen and get it sold at the auction house, after he found the fossil on his land.

 

The fossil is the most complete Stegosaurus specimen ever found so far and even preserves skin impressions, wich makes it very requested under scientists. But it is questionable if it is ever going to get studied by them, as it is sadly going to get sold. 

 

This is the worst fate for this specimen, as this might be the last time we'll ever see it again, as it could be sold into a private collection.

 

So lets hope, pray for a miracle, that this amazing fossil will find its way into a museum to get studied.

 

What are your thoughts on this topic ? Should it be allowed to sell such important paleontological finds at an auction house to potentialy never see them again and loose much inportant knowledge ?

 

I think not !

 

https://www.barrons.com/articles/20-foot-stegosaurus-fossil-expected-to-sell-for-6-million-at-sothebys-new-york-95138ff0

Edited May 30 by Brevicollis

[Collector9658]

I think if the finder owned the land or had the rights to the land where it was excavated, it should be fair game for them to decide the fate of the fossil.

[Jaybot]

It's fair game.  While this is scientifically important, the the finder should not have his free will violated in my opinion, as this is a free market.  Museums should be willing to purchase specimens, as well as receive the generous donations.  I guess what I'm getting at is;  donations/loans should not be expected by museums, but more appreciated.  Don't take me too seriously, I'm just a layman.  All that being said, I sincerely hope that a museum wins the auction!!!

[rocket]

private fossil, he can do what he likes. If a museum has the money, great. If its a private collector, that´s life

[Denis Arcand]

1 hour ago, Brevicollis said:

Hello, I got some sad news...

The most complete Stegosaurus specimen named "Apex" is about to be sold at auction at the Sotheby's auction house in New York.

 

This specimen was found in 2022 by so called "commercial paleontologist", Jasoon Cooper, who almost immediatly began working with the auction house to detail the specimen and get it sold at the auction house, after he found the fossil on his land.

 

The fossil is the most complete Stegosaurus specimen ever found so far and even preserves skin impressions, wich makes it very requested under scientists. But it is questionable if it is ever going to get studied by them, as it is sadly going to get sold. 

 

This is the worst fate for this specimen, as this might be the last time we'll ever see it again, as it could be sold into a private collection.

 

So lets hope, pray for a miracle, that this amazing fossil will find its way into a museum to get studied.

 

What are your thoughts on this topic ? Should it be allowed to sell such important paleontological finds at an auction house to potentialy never see them again and loose much inportant knowledge ?

 

I think not !

 

https://www.barrons.com/articles/20-foot-stegosaurus-fossil-expected-to-sell-for-6-million-at-sothebys-new-york-95138ff0

 

This explains why, in Canada, dinosaur fossils belong to the country rather than to individuals.

[Brevicollis]

Makes sense so far, maybe I overreacted a bit. Its his fossil, he can do whatever he wants with it. I certainly hope that it gets sold into a museum, but if not, we must accept that. But I also think, that there ahould be harder laws for scientific important finds...

Edited May 30 by Brevicollis

[Praefectus]

Researchers are more than welcome to buy the specimen. If they can't afford that, they could always nicely ask the specimen's new owner to study it.

[Denis Arcand]

55 minutes ago, Praefectus said:

Researchers are more than welcome to buy the specimen. If they can't afford that, they could always nicely ask the specimen's new owner to study it.

Unfortunately, auction houses often honor the wishes of their clients who prefer anonymity. 

[rocket]

So it is necessary to hold good contacts from scientists, museums and politics with the dealers and private collectors to work together. The fact is: lot of private collectors have more money to buy than some countries together... And, lot of them love to show and present their fossils. When all work together there is a good chance to have access on most of the big and expensive ones for research. Not all, that´s life. But, without the money of the private collectors lot of dealers and diggers do not go to dig the fossils and lot of fossils go lost due to erosion and the fact, that they will never be found...

Edited June 2 by rocket
added the "dealers"

[Jaybot]

On 5/31/2024 at 3:38 AM, rocket said:

But, without the money of the private collectors lot of dealers and diggers do not go to dig the fossils and lot of fossils go lost due to erosion and the fact, that they will never be found...

Exactly; so many species have been discovered by 'amateurs', that would have been lost forever if no one was allowed to look but people with degrees.

[jpc]

Many very American answers here.  The OP asked  our opinion on the topic of what do we think of such unique specimens being sold privately.   He did not ask what the laws say.  I say this not to anger folks, but just to steer the discussion to where it was meant to go.  

 

Some other countries (including parts of Canada) have very different ways of looking at things.  I really like Denmark's Danekrae system.  Denmark generally allows all sorts of fossil hunting, but exceptional specimens are by law meant to stay in the country.  Addtionally the national Museum has a budget to purchase these things.  Granted DK really does not have fossils can can fetch the prices of American dinosaurs, but the national museum has some amazing fossils, including, I dare say probably the third best Eocene bird collection in the world.  

 

I would love to see this in the states, but Americans are so tied into the whole private property thing that it will never happen.  

 

  

[Coco]

https://actu.orange.fr/societe/high-tech/des-fossiles-et-des-millions-le-plus-grand-squelette-de-stegosaure-aux-encheres-CNT000002enKcc.html

 

"Fossils and millions: the largest stegosaurus skeleton at auction

 

Discovered in 2022 in Colorado, the largest skeleton of stegosaurus ever reconstituted will be auctioned next week in New York City by the company Sotheby’s, a sale that risks feeding again the frustration of paleontologists.

 

Presented on Wednesday, before being exhibited until its sale on July 17, this stegosaurus, recognizable by its pointed plates along the back, and about 150 million years old, impresses with its size (3.3 meters high, 6 meters long) and its state of conservation, with 254 bone fossils out of a total of 319. Including a femur of about 1.10 m.

 

"Apex", its name, "is a very rare animal, and finding one of this size, and so complete, is phenomenal," Cassandra Hatton, head of science and popular culture at Sotheby’s, told AFP.

 

The auction house has estimated its value at between $4 million and $6 million, one of the highest prices on the market, even if this remains far from the record of 31.8 million reached in 2020 in New York for a Tyrannosaurus Rex, the star of dinosaurs.

 

The skeleton of "Apex" was discovered in May 2022 on the private property of a famous paleontologist, Jason Cooper, and Sotheby’s says it has worked with him since the beginning to organize this sale, a guarantee of "transparency" according to the company.

 

In 2022, the auction house Christie’s had to remove a skeleton of T-Rex from the state of Montana a few days before the sale in Hong Kong, due to doubts about the authenticity of parts of the fossil.

 

These auctions have multiplied in recent years, causing debate and frustration among paleontologists who see extraordinary fossils go into the hands of private collectors and escape museums and scientific research.

 

Skeletons of stegosaurs are already on display around the world, but according to Sotheby’s, "Apex" is 30% larger than "Sophie", the most complete specimen shown to the public, at the Natural History Museum in London.

 

"This is a debate that we hear a lot (...) but most of the people I work with give or lend these specimens to museums, they understand the meaning," Cassandra Hatton relativizes. According to her, a museum can always be acquired with the help of a patron.

 

According to Sotheby’s, Jason Cooper has already donated a "significant number" of specimens to institutions "around the world".

This dinosaur is the main piece of a wide series of scientific souvenir sales".

 

Translated for you with an automatic translator.

 

Coco

[Brevicollis]

 

I've also posted about that before, but your topic is way more informative than mine 

Good job gathering these informations !

 

[JorisVV]

Wonder how much it would go for...

[BirdsAreDinosaurs]

Sold for 44.6 million dollars, highest ever for a dinosaur fossil!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/article/2024/jul/17/largest-most-intact-stegosaurus-fossil-ever-found-sells-for-446m

[rocket]

Incredible...

This really fantastic Stegosaur 

 

Stegosaurus | Natural History, including Apex the Stegosaurus | Science | Sotheby's (sothebys.com)

 

beats the "old" Record of Stan

Sold at 44.6 Million USD....

 

Stegosaurus sells for almost $45 million at Sotheby's auction, the most for any dinosaur fossil - CBS News

 

Just booked a flight to dig my own to become a rich man 

Edited July 18 by rocket

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

🤦🏻‍♂️

 

Well, that's indeed te consequence of these ridiculous market prices for relatively complete, well-preserved and expertly prepared dinosaur fossils... Has both positive and negative sides to it...

[Fossildude19]

TOPICS MERGED.

[FB003]

I need to go find one of these in the ground too. $44.6 million is nuts. Literal lotto win.

[FossilDAWG]

2 hours ago, FB003 said:

I need to go find one of these in the ground too. $44.6 million is nuts. Literal lotto win.

Probably it would cost you more than that to buy property where you could have a chance to find anything.  There are no public land sites where it is legal to collect such fossils.

 

Don

[Flx]

Here is Switzerland the relationship between researchers and private fossil collectors is much better than in the US. One of the reasons is that a private collector recently donated 10 (!) very complete dinosaurs to the University of Zurich. The donation also included 2 stegosaurs. 

 

Usually, it is only a question of time until privately owned dinosaurs are donated to a museum. What I find a bit annoying is the high price that has been paid for Apex. This makes it much more difficult/expensive for me to get new unprepped dino material from Morisson Fm. 

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

2 hours ago, Flx said:

Here is Switzerland the relationship between researchers and private fossil collectors is much better than in the US. One of the reasons is that a private collector recently donated 10 (!) very complete dinosaurs to the University of Zurich. The donation also included 2 stegosaurs. 

 

You mean there are more people in Switzerland than just Siber who own a private dinosaur collection?

 

[Flx]

10 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

 

You mean there are more people in Switzerland than just Siber who own a private dinosaur collection?

 

Well, Siber is who donated the dinos. 

There are additional (in comparison insignificant) dino collectors like me. 

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

39 minutes ago, Flx said:

Well, Siber is who donated the dinos. 

There are additional (in comparison insignificant) dino collectors like me. 

 

So did he terminate the Sauriermuseum Aathal, then? Were these excess specimens? Or is it just transfer of title of ownership with a deal for the specimens to remain on display in Aathal?

[Flx]

10 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

 

So did he terminate the Sauriermuseum Aathal, then? Were these excess specimens? Or is it just transfer of title of ownership with a deal for the specimens to remain on display in Aathal?

The museum is digging for new specimen to fill it up again.