TriVeratops Posted August 11 Author Share Posted August 11 (edited) 3 hours ago, hadrosauridae said: Nice. The repairs you show, the more I wish the original prepped would stop touching fossils completely. Looking at the cleaned surface, it looks to have a pretty significant separation and matrix infill along this line. Curious if you are planning on correcting those lines, and your plan. That is such a good question. I wasn’t planning to, but as I look at those gaps, there aren’t that many connecting points and it might be relatively easy to get them apart. I’m guessing I’d need to use acetone to soften any adhesive in those gaps, but if you know a better way, please let me know! I’m also thinking about those areas in particular because they are connected to the piece circled in red below, which is displaced and covers another area of exterior bone. It’s partly held up by the piece of matrix circled in green. If I remove and reposition that piece and the matrix underneath it, it should make it easier to remove that whole end piece, remove the matrix in the gap, and get a better join. Where it might get weird is on the other side. These two pieces connect with that big break and I’m not sure how they’ll behave if I mess with it. On the other hand, this intervention could give me an opportunity to reposition these two pieces, as their exterior surface isn’t level with the surrounding bone. More pics showing the gap and the lack of connecting points inside. The other join (the part that the coracoid would have connected to in life) is much tighter, but it’s slightly off rotation. I think it might be harder to remove, but if you see a way to do it, I’d love to know. This piece doesn’t bother me as much. Edited August 11 by TriVeratops 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadrosauridae Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 Before going deeper, I agree that the last pic looks fine and I wouldnt mess with it. Disarticulating all the breaks is what I do on my preps. Some times you get all the inner matrix out and get a clean, beautiful join on to the part. Some times you find it has lost all of that connecting material and it will never make a clean connection, then you end up epoxying it basically how it was before. But at least you know its a solid joint now. For the pieces that are offset, you can definitely help. The difficulty could be in getting those pieces apart, especially since we dont know what the previous person did or didnt do. Start with a dental pick and see if you can dig out the matrix or if it feels set with glue. If its glued, you might try dropping acetone in the crack, wrap in plastic-wrap and let it set about 10 minutes, then see what you can clear away. I use a micro blaster and microscope, but you can do it with hand tools. Just be careful as it could also be easy to dig away fossil. Dont do too many areas at once, and place all the pieces into a tray in their relative position and orientation to make it easier to re-assemble. Trust me, too many separated chunks will lead to cussing and trying to figure out where part #57 goes, and what way it faced, etc. Take lots of pictures as you work for a final back-up of piece placements. Also, re-assembly of these pieces isnt 100% like a puzzle. They wont fit perfectly, so spend a LOT of time holding pieces in place, staring at them from every angle, analysing if the angles look right from ALL orientations AND relationship to neighboring pieces. Its easy to glue something on, have the edges look perfect and angle looks right, until you flip it over and realize the angle is not correct on that side, and needed 15 degrees more or less angle, etc. Using a sand box (or bucket) can help a lot as a 3rd hand in this part of the prep. I like to start on one end and work my way across. Stand the fossil up and let the sand around it hold in place, then you have both hands free to work, and you can move freely around the part to inspect it. For gapped joins, I like to use a small, center core of epoxy to position, then let it cure. After that you can come back and fill out the gap with more epoxy. 1 1 Professional fossil preparation services at Red Dirt Fossils, LLC. https://reddirtfossils.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriVeratops Posted August 11 Author Share Posted August 11 1 hour ago, hadrosauridae said: Before going deeper, I agree that the last pic looks fine and I wouldnt mess with it. Disarticulating all the breaks is what I do on my preps. Some times you get all the inner matrix out and get a clean, beautiful join on to the part. Some times you find it has lost all of that connecting material and it will never make a clean connection, then you end up epoxying it basically how it was before. But at least you know its a solid joint now. For the pieces that are offset, you can definitely help. The difficulty could be in getting those pieces apart, especially since we dont know what the previous person did or didnt do. Start with a dental pick and see if you can dig out the matrix or if it feels set with glue. If its glued, you might try dropping acetone in the crack, wrap in plastic-wrap and let it set about 10 minutes, then see what you can clear away. I use a micro blaster and microscope, but you can do it with hand tools. Just be careful as it could also be easy to dig away fossil. Dont do too many areas at once, and place all the pieces into a tray in their relative position and orientation to make it easier to re-assemble. Trust me, too many separated chunks will lead to cussing and trying to figure out where part #57 goes, and what way it faced, etc. Take lots of pictures as you work for a final back-up of piece placements. Also, re-assembly of these pieces isnt 100% like a puzzle. They wont fit perfectly, so spend a LOT of time holding pieces in place, staring at them from every angle, analysing if the angles look right from ALL orientations AND relationship to neighboring pieces. Its easy to glue something on, have the edges look perfect and angle looks right, until you flip it over and realize the angle is not correct on that side, and needed 15 degrees more or less angle, etc. Using a sand box (or bucket) can help a lot as a 3rd hand in this part of the prep. I like to start on one end and work my way across. Stand the fossil up and let the sand around it hold in place, then you have both hands free to work, and you can move freely around the part to inspect it. For gapped joins, I like to use a small, center core of epoxy to position, then let it cure. After that you can come back and fill out the gap with more epoxy. Fantastic advice, thank you so much! I’ll plan on doing it this way. And yes I’ve been thinking I’ll do the sand bucket method when it’s ready for reassembly. This project is a huge can of worms, but I’m really enjoying it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trilobites_are_awesome Posted August 15 Share Posted August 15 (edited) On 8/11/2024 at 4:31 PM, TriVeratops said: This project is a huge can of worms, but I’m really enjoying it! You are doing great! Your first big prep project is always a can of worms! Edited August 15 by trilobites_are_awesome Spelling 1 Cheers! James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriVeratops Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 Okay, made some real progress. I finally removed the last of the plaster on the proximal end (still gotta get to the distal end though, I saved the easier part for last). With the plaster gone, it was relatively easy to re-break the gapped join on the glenoid side, along with the displaced chunks of bone in the surrounding area, and clear out the matrix in the joins. Because I’ve been applying consolidant, the pieces are fairly sturdy and I haven’t had any new breaks. I don’t think I’m going to get a flawless join, but the pieces are much better aligned. Before After Before After I knew this piece was way out of place. Pretty sure it goes here. I’m planning to apply more Paraloid to all the broken pieces in the areas I couldn’t reach before re-breaking, then reassemble using epoxy and the sand bucket method. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadrosauridae Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 So much better! 1 Professional fossil preparation services at Red Dirt Fossils, LLC. https://reddirtfossils.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriVeratops Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 thanks :)) it’s really coming together (or coming apart) nicely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex S. Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 It looks fantastic! This is really inspiring me to work on my scapula. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriVeratops Posted August 23 Author Share Posted August 23 20 minutes ago, Alex S. said: It looks fantastic! This is really inspiring me to work on my scapula. Do ittt :))) Also if it’s from a hadrosaur, I’d love to see pictures of it, as I’m always looking for more good visual reference to reconstruct the ends of this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trilobites_are_awesome Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 you are really making head way on this project! Amazing work! 1 Cheers! James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex S. Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 10 hours ago, TriVeratops said: Do ittt :))) Also if it’s from a hadrosaur, I’d love to see pictures of it, as I’m always looking for more good visual reference to reconstruct the ends of this one! I will let you know I haven't uncovered the proximal end yet the bone quality is not as nice as yours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriVeratops Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 As I mentioned earlier, the join on the coracoid side wasn’t all that bad…but I decided it wasn’t all that good either. This one was a little harder to get apart, but a few drops of acetone and ten minutes wrapped in plastic wrap worked beautifully. Before After 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriVeratops Posted September 2 Author Share Posted September 2 (edited) I’ve done just about all the cleanup and consolidation I want to do on the proximal end, but there’s one more area I’m not sure if I should change before I start reassembly. This piece is pretty clearly bent out of shape, if not out of place. I’ve cleaned matrix off and soaked it several times with acetone, but unlike the other pieces I was able to re-break, this one doesn’t want to separate and doesn’t have an obvious break point. This suggests that it wasn’t glued in place like the other pieces and is in its in situ/as found position. What would you guys suggest I do with this? Should I keep trying to reposition it or let it be a natural flaw in the fossil? I’m leaning toward the latter because I’m fairly certain I can do gap fill around it without it looking terrible, but I’d be interested in hearing your opinions @hadrosauridae and anybody else before I move forward. Edited September 2 by TriVeratops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadrosauridae Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 Some times, things get broken and moved before and during fossilization. If you want to leave it, I dont see any problem with that. All fossils are flawed in some way! 1 Professional fossil preparation services at Red Dirt Fossils, LLC. https://reddirtfossils.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybot Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 On 9/2/2024 at 8:59 PM, hadrosauridae said: All fossils are flawed in some way! That's part of the beauty of them if you ask me 2 -Jay “The earth doesn't need new continents, but new men.” ― Jules Verne, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriVeratops Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 I appreciate the reassurance It can be challenging to decide when to repair and when to let the fossil be perfectly imperfect! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex S. Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 I definitely prefer to leave it. Things like that provide context into the fossilization process. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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