Chinese fossils and the laws against fossil export?

[Brevicollis]

Keichousaurs are also from China, and its also illegal to export fossils from there. Do I now have to worry that some day in the future the Sondereinsatzkommando will ring my doorbell to storm my house and confiscate my three Keichous ? 

 

Another question : when its illegal to export fossils out of China, why does the market still get flooded with many new fossils from there daily 

 

Im just wondering

Edited June 12 by Brevicollis

[Fossildude19]

12 minutes ago, Brevicollis said:

Keichousaurs are also from China, and its also illegal to export fossils from there. Do I now have to worry that some day in the future the Sondereinsatzkommando will ring my doorbell to storm my house and confiscate my three Keichous ? 

 

Another question : when its illegal to export fossils out of China, why does the market still get flooded with many new fossils from there daily 

 

Im just wondering

 

This may be a good start to a different topic. 

 

They get smuggled out, (or sold to Taiwan) purchased, then resold out to other countries. 

BOTTOM LINE:  If you don't want issues, or the law showing up on your doorstep, ... Stay away from Chinese fossils.  Pretty Simple.

If you know it isn't right, then you are complicit in the exploitation of the fossils from China.

 

[Brevicollis]

When I bought them, I didnt knew much about fossil laws around the world, only since im here, I start to know them a bit. Short : I didnt knew back then that it is illegal to export fossils out of China, and that this might have consquences for me, but when I look what other people have in their collections, I think that I dont really have to worry about that. 

 

Also, who collects and prepares the fossils in China ?

[Kane]

6 minutes ago, Brevicollis said:

When I bought them, I didnt knew much about fossil laws around the world, only since im here, I start to know them a bit. Short : I didnt knew back then that it is illegal to export fossils out of China, and that this might have consquences for me, but when I look what other people have in their collections, I think that I dont really have to worry about that. 

 

Also, who collects and prepares the fossils in China ?

As it is said, "ignorance is no defence from the law." And, just because others may have willingly or inadvertently broken laws and not been punished does not mean others should operate with impunity.  

[North]

23 minutes ago, Brevicollis said:

Keichousaurs are also from China, and its also illegal to export fossils from there. Do I now have to worry that some day in the future the Sondereinsatzkommando will ring my doorbell to storm my house and confiscate my three Keichous ? 

 

Another question : when its illegal to export fossils out of China, why does the market still get flooded with many new fossils from there daily 

 

Im just wondering

As non law professional, I believe it is difficult to give an perfect answer. Also there is some gray area.

 

But I believe it is more about the laws of your own country, since laws of other countries might not be supported. Some countries like US, return fossils as political actions. And some also support foreign laws.

 

There are some fossils from time before restrictions, but it is hard to know. Otherwise as Fossildude mentioned.

But then you have fabricated ones that are allowed to be transported.

 

Many fossils are found by local farmers. Fossil might be worth of years payment, so temptation is high. But punishments are severe.

[Brevicollis]

I just found the WhatsApp Chat with the seller of them. No further informations to the seller, but he stated he aquiered these Keichous back in 1982.

 

How old is the fossil law in China wich would make them hopefully save ?

 

Edit : I think this topic is drifting to far away from where it started, first we talked about a claw, and now about chinese fossil law and my Keichous...

Split the topic maybe ?

 

 

Edited June 12 by Brevicollis

[JBkansas]

25 minutes ago, Brevicollis said:

How old is the fossil law in China which would make them hopefully save ?

This might be handy:

https://www.aaps.net/pdf/AAPS_IllegalFossils_Tucson.pdf

 

Of course, many of the auctions selling Chinese material claim to come from before the ban (they never explain why they held onto them for 40+ years).

Edited June 12 by JBkansas

[Brevicollis]

1982, the same year as the export got banned... But its not known if he bought them here, or in China. Or if they were even illegally exported. And the law wich makes Germany return illegal exported fossils to their homecountrys was also introduced, after the Keichous were bought and here. With so less known backstory, I think we can move further on and leave this topic behind, we cant change the past or exactly know what happend. 

 

But lets hope this will be informative for any members with chinese fossils, or new collectors who want to get a Keichou and dont know about the fossil laws...

Edited June 12 by Brevicollis

[Fossildude19]

Posts split out into it's own topic. 

[Brevicollis]

Also another question to keep this thread going : what happens to the Keichous after they got returned to China ? End they up in private collections there, or will they end up in a museums drawer to never see the  daylight again ? Or will they end up in a museums drawer to get forgotten, and get found again after a couple years, decades ? 

 

I've never heard, how the returned fossil are handled in the countrys that they belong to, if its even questionable to really return them all, only to see them or most of them vanish 

 

[Fossildude19]

Ultimately, the dispensation of the returned fossils is up to the government of the fossils' origin.

Usually they go to museums, but what actually happens to the fossils is anyone's guess.

[JBkansas]

18 minutes ago, Brevicollis said:

Also another question to keep this thread going : what happens to the Keichous after they got returned to China ? End they up in private collections there, or will they end up in a museums drawer to never see the  daylight again ? Or will they end up in a museums drawer to get forgotten, and get found again after a couple years, decades ? 

 

I've never heard, how the returned fossil are handled in the countrys that they belong to, if its even questionable to really return them all, only to see them or most of them vanish 

 

 

I doubt your keiches would end up with a museum. They'd probably end up in an evidence locker for a few decades before being destroyed.

 

[Brevicollis]

30 minutes ago, JBkansas said:

 

I doubt your keiches would end up with a museum. They'd probably end up in an evidence locker for a few decades before being destroyed.

 

 

Thats just... shocking, how inhumane 

Those poor fossils, why return them to get them destroyed, when you still can put them into a museum to make something useful out of them ? I dont understand the decision of politicians sometimes, I mean, they probably dont even know what these are and how important they are for the scientists ! 

 

But they make the law, and we cant change that. So lets be proud of ourselves for saving fossils, even if it might get us in some trouble.

 

I'll keep my Keichous. At least me and some visitors can be happy to see these beautyful fossils, instead of some concrete powder

 

 

Edited June 12 by Brevicollis

[FossilDAWG]

We wade into this topic from time to time it seems.

Unfortunately it seems people who write laws are often immune to nuance.  In the desire to protect important archeological artifacts, anything that is old (such as fossils) is labeled an "artifact" (although they have nothing to do with human manufacture), and so they are deemed as needing of "protection" as the Rosetta Stone.  Or else, all fossils are deemed "rare". "irreplaceable", and "of critical scientific importance".  For example in Alberta, the most common fragment of a broken Baculites is afforded the same "protection" as the Burgess Shale.  Of course, "protection" just means eroding into dust (at best) or being crushed to make cement or gravel (at worst). 

 

Nevertheless, we are just the Fossil Forum.  We do not write laws for any country or jurisdiction, we can only try to educate.  Therefore, although it may be painful, as a matter of policy we can only encourage members to learn about the laws of their country, and to follow those laws lest they blunder into legal trouble.  If you don't agree with the laws, hopefully you live in a place where you can try to educate lawmakers and get things changed (sure, right, good luck with that!), but knowingly (or even unknowingly) breaking the law puts you at some risk, and we can't be a party to that.

 

Don

[JBkansas]

1 minute ago, FossilDAWG said:

Of course, "protection" just means eroding into dust (at best) or being crushed to make cement or gravel (at worst). 

I think this is the hardest part to bear. These bans would be much easier to bear if the fossils weren't being ground into lime or cut into pavement.

[hadrosauridae]

6 hours ago, Brevicollis said:

1982, the same year as the export got banned... But its not known if he bought them here, or in China. Or if they were even illegally exported. And the law wich makes Germany return illegal exported fossils to their homecountrys was also introduced, after the Keichous were bought and here. With so less known backstory, I think we can move further on and leave this topic behind, we cant change the past or exactly know what happend. 

 

But lets hope this will be informative for any members with chinese fossils, or new collectors who want to get a Keichou and dont know about the fossil laws...

 

Keep in mind that people selling illegally exported (smuggled) fossils, WILL lie to you and make up any story to make their items sound legit.  They dont care about laws, they only care about sales.  Every seller I have heard an explanation from says they come from somewhere else, or were bought before the ban, etc etc.   I'm not knocking you for buying before you knew about the ban.  Just for future readers, always research fossil export laws before buying anything, especially when its an an online sale, or from a traveling merchant at a fossil show.