Upper Triassic ammonites from Epidauros Greece

[Dimitris]

I have promised in a previous post that I will make a report about the Upper Triassic (Carnian) ammonites of Epidaurus - Greece, so here I am.

The Triassic of Epidauros has two basic formations; one being the Asklepieion Kalke (Asklepieion limestone FM) and the other is the Upper Triassic (lower Carnian - ünterkarnische Kalke) limestone of Hagios Andreas.

• The Asklepieion Kalke are mostly dense mortality plates of ammonites, whose limestone has a dark red/ brownish texture and the fossils usually bear a thin crust of magnanese oxide, that gives this amazing texture. Although, it is mostly Middle Triassic (Anisian and Ladinian), there is a very limited layer that has partial silicification and extends up to early Carnian. Similar limestones can be found in Austria and Bosnia and can be named as Hallstatt facies as well. 
• The Hagios Andreas limestone though, seems to be exclusively early Carnian and the fossilization process must have been totally different. The ammonites have usually a calcite core, rarely with a partial/full silicification of their center. There are certain layers where the limestone has dendritic forms, making the fossils more interesting.

 

In my opinion, the best publication about this area was made by Carl Renz "Die mesozoischen Faunen Griechenlands" circa 1910. The outcrop was so rich, fossil-wise, that Renz described it as a breccia of ammonites. Well, the days of abundance are long gone, since some people have cubic meters of this limestones in their basements - enough to build a mausoleum. I was lucky enough to find a small vein, smaller than 1x1 meter and gathered some limestone.

 

Most of my ammonites from this place belong to the species of Joannites, with some small exceptions. As per the reports of Renz, rarer species have been found, like:

• Lobites
• Dinarites
• Halorites
• Celtites
• Clionites
• Some straight nautiloids and coiled ones, like Syringoceras

Another interesting aspect I would like to highlight is that there are many evolutionary transitional species of Joannites, that cannot be classified into one species, rather than in a stage between two species.

 

This is a general aspect of my small L. Carnian collection.  On the right side, you can see a piece of Asklepieion Kalke ammonitic limestone.

 

This is a Joannites sp.

 

And a close up on him.

 

 

 

Another Joannites sp that might be J. klipsteini

This side is not that great, but 7:00 is something rarer for the area, a small crinoid section.

 

 

Its other side, again close up.

 

 

Another Joannites sp that was eroded on the field.

Probably, again Joannites klipsteini, since it presents the distinctive shuriken-like pattern.

It's other side is worse, so I might slice him.

 

 

Two more Joannites sp that were damaged from the erosion. I don't think that I can narrow them down to species, since their preservation is not the best.

 

 

A rarer species from the place, probably a Trachyceras

 

 

This tiny ammonite is my most important find, since it seems to have the morphological characteristics of the endemic species Asklepioceras helenae

 

 

I compare mine against this table, samples number 4 and 5

 

 

I still have this small block that I hope it will unveil some beauties

 

 

And another one piece that is already in the laboratory and working on it slowly.

 

That is more or less how the Carnian ammonites of Greece look like. Since their deposits are mostly depleted, they are the least published.

Of course, the epicenter of attention was always the reddish limestone of the Asklepieion, so these ones are usually missed.

[Dimitris]

Some transitional forms of Joannites from the publication of Renz.

Interesting information that may help some people.

[Ludwigia]

Thanks very much for sharing this with us.

[rocket]

interesting material, thanks for sharing! How is the situation in greece at the moment? Is it overall allowed to dig fossils or is it restricted?

 

[Neanderthal Shaman]

Awesome finds and nice suture patterns

[Dimitris]

On 7/3/2024 at 11:15 PM, rocket said:

interesting material, thanks for sharing! How is the situation in greece at the moment? Is it overall allowed to dig fossils or is it restricted?

 

Honestly, it was never forbidden, provided we are not talking about a protected area like the Geopark of Lesvos or that of Grevena.

However, there are many bureaucratic procedures that you need to do if you want to formally export a fossil found in Greece.

As far as I know, there is prohibition for vertebrate (not sure if it affects both land and marine animals).

 

Since Greece has a rich culural history, there is high chance luggage to be stopped in the airport for further check, and since someone would have skipped the formal export procedure, it might cause problems.

 

In my case, I live in Sofia, Bulgaria, so I carry everything on my Jeep. Nobody has ever checked me (BG is outside of land-border schengen) , even when I was loaded with boulders.

Hypothetically, if I was living in another EU country other than BG,  I would ship them with post or a transport company.

[rocket]

1 minute ago, Dimitris said:

Honestly, it was never forbidden, provided we are not talking about a protected area like the Geopark of Lesvos or that of Grevena.

However, there are many bureaucratic procedures that you need to do if you want to formally export a fossil found in Greece.

As far as I know, there is prohibition for vertebrate (not sure if it affects both land and marine animals).

 

Since Greece has a rich culural history, there is high chance luggage to be stopped in the airport for further check, and since someone would have skipped the formal export procedure, it might cause problems.

 

In my case, I live in Sofia, Bulgaria, so I carry everything on my Jeep. Nobody has ever checked me (BG is outside of land-border schengen) , even when I was loaded with boulders.

Hypothetically, if I was living in another EU country other than BG,  I would ship them with post or a transport company.

This is what I have heard, too. With vertebrate fossils it is a bit more complicate, but possible. With fossils in general it has export procedure but normally everything works. Greece is interested in protecting the archeological sites and finds, but with fossils they are more relaxed.