Samurai Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) Hello! I happened to have just found this odd fish blob today from the stark shale. This is my first fish blob and I wondered if anyone knew if this was a shark or some sort of Palaeonisciform. Sadly no teeth were seen Location: Missouri Age: Pennsylvanian Formation: Dennis Bone? Other Images: Edited July 19 by Samurai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connorp Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Any chance of better pictures? These are not very clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trilobites_are_awesome Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Need better pictures to ID. Cheers! James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, connorp said: Any chance of better pictures? These are not very clear. Sounds good, my phone cant really pick this up well, here are some photos which are the upper limit of what I can really get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 @jdp Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 IPFOTM -- MAY - 2024 _________________________________________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Hard to tell; would need better focus to really say anything. My gut feeling is that we're looking at dermal denticles, though, not actinopterygian scales. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 On 7/23/2024 at 12:14 PM, jdp said: Hard to tell; would need better focus to really say anything. My gut feeling is that we're looking at dermal denticles, though, not actinopterygian scales. Sounds good, I am actually cleaning up the dirtier half as we speak and should have some images soon today or tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 On 7/23/2024 at 12:14 PM, jdp said: Hard to tell; would need better focus to really say anything. My gut feeling is that we're looking at dermal denticles, though, not actinopterygian scales. Here is what I have right now, Not much different from the others, but I will see if I can take the pictures in better light tomorrow as its starting to get a little cloudy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 3 hours ago, Samurai said: Here is what I have right now, Not much different from the others, but I will see if I can take the pictures in better light tomorrow as its starting to get a little cloudy. This one specifically looks like it might be a Listracanthus scale. So you might have a rather rotten and blown-out specimen of that animal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Posted July 25 Author Share Posted July 25 8 hours ago, jdp said: This one specifically looks like it might be a Listracanthus scale. So you might have a rather rotten and blown-out specimen of that animal. That would be quiite awesome! I actually went digging in the stark to find Listracanthus body specimens as I suspct it being one of the best, if not only, shale to look through due go its lagerstatte like preservation. To find it within my first hour at the locality would be amazing! I have heard of the crumble to dust stories in the past and made it a goal of mine to try and find parts. I have also heard what other people on the forum have found in relation to Listracanthus as well. I have found several denticles already and one of decent size at the site. Sadly this rotten piece was in a blown out chunk when construction took place and was next to the sidewalk so my quest will continue. No fins or teeth were present in this piece so far so it probably was a chunk that disarticulated from the main body. Ill keep this updated. If you have any tips to clean this up without damaging it I would love to know as well! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 I have always wanted to collect the Stark Shale and look forward to seeing what you find. i took a look at your pictures and do not see anything that definitely looks like listracanthus. while denticles are extremely common in exposures around the world, the entire animal has remained quite elusive. To date, the skull is completely unknown. I found a partial specimen a few years ago that preserves some new features but unfortunately, the skull is either not preserved or disarticulated. I have shown it to several researchers that have expressed interest in studying it in more detail. The Field Museum has a fairly large section of the body but does not show much that would be diagnostic. The specimen that I found has several unique features including a previously unknown spine. i still try to check the site that I found it at once or twice a year. Hopefully, I will eventually find one that is complete. Good luck with your search. I have seen some nice material that has come out of the Stark. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybot Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 Nice find @Samurai!!! I have yet to hunt the stark, but I do enjoy hunting these black fissile shale layers. While slow hunting, I feel there is great potential in these layers, and your find helps confirm that. Now for a complete, fully articulated fish/shark.... 1 -Jay “The earth doesn't need new continents, but new men.” ― Jules Verne, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Posted July 28 Author Share Posted July 28 (edited) 20 hours ago, Jaybot said: Nice find @Samurai!!! I have yet to hunt the stark, but I do enjoy hunting these black fissile shale layers. While slow hunting, I feel there is great potential in these layers, and your find helps confirm that. Now for a complete, fully articulated fish/shark.... For complete it would be a once in a lifetime find, I am hopping for a skull and anymore as bonus! It'll probably be a several years for anything like that to pop up. There have been finds of full sharks and fish in the stark in the past pictured in "A pictoral guide to fossils" from Nebraska. Its a good read if you can pick it up. I had recently found some fragmented cartilage but I am going to save prep for later when I save up for appropriate tools. Good luck in your future finds! Edited July 28 by Samurai 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybot Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 22 hours ago, Samurai said: For complete it would be a once in a lifetime find I know, that's why we need to look for one 22 hours ago, Samurai said: I am hopping for a skull and anymore as bonus! It'll probably be a several years for anything like that to pop up. I'm sure you will find one! You have found so many incredible KC metro fossils, it's just a matter of time. I think I have a bit more looking to do than you before one is found- I've only been in this hobby for a year now. Speaking of that, I've barely done any roadcut hunting this past month; might need to change that. 1 -Jay “The earth doesn't need new continents, but new men.” ― Jules Verne, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 13 hours ago, Jaybot said: I know, that's why we need to look for one I'm sure you will find one! You have found so many incredible KC metro fossils, it's just a matter of time. I think I have a bit more looking to do than you before one is found- I've only been in this hobby for a year now. Speaking of that, I've barely done any roadcut hunting this past month; might need to change that. Maybe some day we could do a joint venture. If you ever see a busted up buick on the side of the road its probably me! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 (edited) Also @jdp I asked @Titan to take a look and he, without a microscope, was able to spot some raised areas some teeth could be hiding. And there were! It was in the yet to be cleaned larger half of this fish! It appears to be some small crusher tooth but I am not too experienced in micro fish teeth. It is less than 1 mm in size! It has this conodont like element on the edge of it too oddly enough I also zoomed in on the other half of that listracanthus-like denticle. I will say in hindsight it looks thick and less ridged than I am used to seeing from Listracanthus in the shale. No smaller sharp feathery "hooks" along the edges as well. If it is not it must be a good mimic. I have attached more photos of the tooth below. I apologize as I only have a hand lens Edited July 29 by Samurai 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Exciting! For those that are reading in my very limited experience in the Stark teeth often present as slightly raised bumps. With a microscope and media blaster they can be exposed with minimal effort. I usually go through my finds under the microscope and circle the raised bumps with chalk and then when I have time to prep them I will go over them to see if it's a tooth/bone. Sometimes they're just pyrite filled nodules, but every now and then you get a tooth! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsnake Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 "apologize as I only have a hand lens" @Samurai I have a free magnifier app on my phone. Works pretty well. You might give it a try. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybot Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 21 minutes ago, Bullsnake said: "apologize as I only have a hand lens" @Samurai I have a free magnifier app on my phone. Works pretty well. You might give it a try. I assume you have one of those new phones with several cameras? I have an older iPhone which doesn't have that capability, so I use a clip-on macro lens. All of the macro photos and photos of tiny specimens in my Neutache Shoreline album was taken with said clip on lens. -Jay “The earth doesn't need new continents, but new men.” ― Jules Verne, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsnake Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 1 hour ago, Jaybot said: I assume you have one of those new phones with several cameras? I have an older iPhone which doesn't have that capability, so I use a clip-on macro lens. All of the macro photos and photos of tiny specimens in my Neutache Shoreline album was taken with said clip on lens. My phone is ~3 years old. It does have multi lenses, but I downloaded the magnifier app. I'm not aware of incompatibility with other/older phones. 1 Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 (edited) Hello! Here is a newer update, I actually found my old digital microscope I got when I was a kid and forgot about. It's not the best but it has allowed me to get closer images of the tooth and scales. Whatever it was it definitely looks interesting. Other half of tooth: Scales Both sides of the Listracanthus-Like scale: Edited July 29 by Samurai 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybot Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Seems like it takes pretty good photos! That tooth looks familiar, reminds me of a fish tooth I found on the outside of a muncie conc. 1 -Jay “The earth doesn't need new continents, but new men.” ― Jules Verne, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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