hadrosauridae Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) Wondering if anyone can help ID this find from today. Its Permian, from the Wellington formation in north-central Oklahoma. This was a surface find. I attempted to find the broken parts without success. The density and shine are really suggestive of a tooth, it doesnt appear like the bone material found here. There is no sign of a blood-groove, or vasculature, nor is there any evidence of serrations. There are a number of species from this site including (so far) fish (very small, and rare scales) Orthacanthus shark, Eryops, Trimerorhachis and Dimetrodon. I have an idea, but I dont want to taint responses. So what do you think this is? scale is in CM. Edited July 27 by hadrosauridae spelling 3 Professional fossil preparation services at Red Dirt Fossils, LLC. https://reddirtfossils.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patelinho7 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 Well, I didn’t want to speak too soon as Permian fossils are way out of my expertise range. And at this point, I have seen your Instagram post, so I’m probably biased. But for whatever it’s worth, it looked like tooth to me, and unlike Orthacanthus and not very fishy either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadrosauridae Posted July 27 Author Share Posted July 27 6 minutes ago, patelinho7 said: Well, I didn’t want to speak too soon as Permian fossils are way out of my expertise range. And at this point, I have seen your Instagram post, so I’m probably biased. But for whatever it’s worth, it looked like tooth to me, and unlike Orthacanthus and not very fishy either. Thanks. I was hoping someone would see it and say "Oh, I've seen that before, its XXX" but even the Permian group on facebook hasnt replied yet. Ddon is by far the largest animal found there so far, but all the results for researching Ddon teeth talks about the serrations. The only thing I can find about non-serrated is from my Permian Vert book that says they have 'serrated teeth and large puncturing canines'. So far I havent seen anything specifically saying that the canines are smooth without serrations. I'm about to rename this fossil site the "FU-man" quarry. It will give me something nice and then when I try to find more it says "F U man! You get nothing" and it goes cold until its ready to give me something more. Whats more frustrating is that so far I havent found anything from excavating, its all been on the surface (except for that last vert which was just barely exposed) and they always have fresh breaks. 1 Professional fossil preparation services at Red Dirt Fossils, LLC. https://reddirtfossils.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patelinho7 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 What a crazy coincidence, all of my localities have the same exact name . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadrosauridae Posted July 27 Author Share Posted July 27 48 minutes ago, patelinho7 said: What a crazy coincidence, all of my localities have the same exact name . hahaha!! Professional fossil preparation services at Red Dirt Fossils, LLC. https://reddirtfossils.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDiggs Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 I'm still learning extensively when it comes to the Permian, but I agree this looks toothy to me. I'm guessing you've already got this publication, right? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260130873_Hidden_dental_diversity_in_the_oldest_terrestrial_apex_predator_Dimetrodon based on figure 6 from the paper above and the lack of serrations I'd say either Sphenacodon or Ctenospondylus would be worth looking into, difficult though that may be. There definitely seems to be a dearth of material on Sphenacodon and I haven't spent much time on Ctenospondylus, but I would expect something similar sadly. I've probably been unhelpful but I wish you luck! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val horn Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 The broken tip looks like it might be clear suggesting fish . Not sure if it is clear however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyw Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 Way back in 2017 dinodigger posted a pic of a ddon fang and it had serrations. I’ve seen a couple of these teeth before I’ve never identified them but I always thought they were fish teeth…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadrosauridae Posted July 28 Author Share Posted July 28 2 hours ago, CDiggs said: I'm still learning extensively when it comes to the Permian, but I agree this looks toothy to me. I'm guessing you've already got this publication, right? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260130873_Hidden_dental_diversity_in_the_oldest_terrestrial_apex_predator_Dimetrodon based on figure 6 from the paper above and the lack of serrations I'd say either Sphenacodon or Ctenospondylus would be worth looking into, difficult though that may be. There definitely seems to be a dearth of material on Sphenacodon and I haven't spent much time on Ctenospondylus, but I would expect something similar sadly. I've probably been unhelpful but I wish you luck! Yes, and she also has a video presentation of the material on youtube I just watched yesterday. I'll try to delve deeper into the others you listed. Thanks! Professional fossil preparation services at Red Dirt Fossils, LLC. https://reddirtfossils.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadrosauridae Posted July 28 Author Share Posted July 28 @Randyw I went back through Chris' posts to find the "fang" pics, and yes there is a line of serrations visible there, so this has eliminated at least some of the species of Ddon. Professional fossil preparation services at Red Dirt Fossils, LLC. https://reddirtfossils.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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