Glacial Mandible- Fish, Turtle, Amphibian or other? Alveoli present.

[Jaybot]

Hello all!

 

   I found this specimen on a recent hunt in E Kansas ‘glacial’ deposits.  I originally thought it to be a turtle mandible, however upon closer inspection I noticed what appears to be alveoli.  Do some turtles have this texture on their mandibles, or does this rule out turtle like I suspect?

 

  My 2nd idea was some sort of fish mandible with the teeth missing, although this is not my wheelhouse.

 

  I’m mainly experienced with mammals, so any help on this would be greatly appreciated!

 

measurements in cm/mm

 

 

 

[old bones]

It does look a lot like a fish dentary bone. Something like an Amia sp., maybe...

[Jaybot]

15 hours ago, old bones said:

It does look a lot like a fish dentary bone. Something like an Amia sp., maybe...

Thanks for the help Julianna!  I am now convinced that it's some sort of fish mandible (too bad no teeth are there).

Is there a good resource for comparing skeletal structures of different fish that were contemporaries of Mammoth, dire wolf, etc.?

[Ptychodus04]

The bone texture looks very fish-like as well. You can do a search for modern North American fish and see what has a dentary similar to this. All of the modern fish should have been here during the late Pleistocene. That would give you a starting point.

[Jaybot]

32 minutes ago, Ptychodus04 said:

The bone texture looks very fish-like as well. You can do a search for modern North American fish and see what has a dentary similar to this. All of the modern fish should have been here during the late Pleistocene. That would give you a starting point.

Thanks Kris, one of these evenings I'll do that.  Will report back once I find a match

[jpc]

I agree with the Amia guess.

 

[Jaybot]

On 8/11/2024 at 5:28 PM, old bones said:

It does look a lot like a fish dentary bone. Something like an Amia sp., maybe...

 

On 8/15/2024 at 10:08 AM, jpc said:

I agree with the Amia guess.

 

Thanks for the id!  After doing a bit of research, I agree.  I'll label it as such.  Thanks, have a great weekend

[val horn]

I thought Amia had  teeth directly attached to the jaw bone without tooth sockets.  

 

 

 

[Jaybot]

On 8/16/2024 at 11:09 PM, val horn said:

I thought Amia had  teeth directly attached to the jaw bone without tooth sockets.  

 

 

 

Perhaps they aren't sockets, and rather divots from where the teeth have been broken off; then the whole thing eroded?  Just a guess, I need to learn more about fish id'ing.

[Petalodus12]

A bit late, but I checked my copy of Grande and Bemis's monograph on amiid fishes, and I agree with the ID. Neat find!