New Members Hutch888 Posted August 26 New Members Share Posted August 26 (edited) I can add more detailed photos I just wanted to see what kinda response and interest it would spark. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks Edited August 26 by Hutch888 Important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 Sorry, it looks like a geode to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members Hutch888 Posted August 26 Author New Members Share Posted August 26 I appreciate your opinion but I'd encourage you to look a little more in depth because the features and definition in its structure is undeniable..thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadrosauridae Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 You are seeing only what you want to see in this. This is a phenomenon called pareidolia. This is not a fossil, and certainly not a fetal dinosaur. 2 Professional fossil preparation services at Red Dirt Fossils, LLC. https://reddirtfossils.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members Hutch888 Posted August 26 Author New Members Share Posted August 26 With all do respect my friend, I'm seeing it for what it looks like. Could you enlighten me on some ways in which I could have the actual material tested or examined..any info would be greatly appreciated thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fin Lover Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 (edited) Sorry, it's just a pretty rock/mineral. No bones or other features that would be present with a skeleton. No egg texture or evidence of an egg. You are welcome to contact your local University or museum for another opinion, or just do some research. https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/92386-so-you-think-youve-found-an-egg-start-here-pdf-guides-available/#comment-1019098 has a lot of information about eggs. Edited August 26 by Fin Lover Added link 2 Fin Lover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members GracieMac Posted August 26 New Members Share Posted August 26 Sometimes I wonder if pareidolia is not the opposite and you see things for what they really are that others can’t see!☺️ No seriously, I certainly do not have any kind of expertise when it comes to fossils but it’s easy to see why they would see the possibility of this being a fossil. Everyone has to start somewhere to learn and mistakes are the best way to do so😊 With all due respect that this, because my statement wasn’t pertaining to the credibility of anyone’s answer. I mean no harm and totally respect anyone able to help with the identity of the items posted on here. I always appreciate a chance to learn and hope to learn a lot about fossils here on The Fossil Forum! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 Before you can say that a specimen is a fossil, you need to know the basics of paleontology. This forum is a huge collection of professional or very, very knowledgeable paleontologists who sometimes have more than 40 years of experience (which is my case for example). Here it is just a mineral. I would even say that if its slightly bluish color reflects the true color, "it can be" Celestite. In no way do we have an embryo of anything here, or even a fossil. They don’t come out that way at all. Thinking about seeing a fossil does not make the sample a fossil... Coco 1 ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Pareidolia : here Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 This is a very nice geode, but not any kind of fossil. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 IPFOTM -- MAY - 2024 _________________________________________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyw Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 Sorry but I’m with the others. There's no symmetry, no bone texture or signs of eggshell. Matter of fact the last 8 pictures absolutely prove that it’s a geode and not a fossil. It’s all composed of the wrong types of material even sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyw Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 1 hour ago, GracieMac said: Sometimes I wonder if pareidolia is not the opposite and you see things for what they really are that others can’t see!☺️ No seriously, I certainly do not have any kind of expertise when it comes to fossils but it’s easy to see why they would see the possibility of this being a fossil. Everyone has to start somewhere to learn and mistakes are the best way to do so😊 With all due respect that this, because my statement wasn’t pertaining to the credibility of anyone’s answer. I mean no harm and totally respect anyone able to help with the identity of the items posted on here. I always appreciate a chance to learn and hope to learn a lot about fossils here on The Fossil Forum! Actually once you’ve learned what to look for and how fossils look and are formed the differences become glaringly obvious. Just like you can visually tell the difference between a rose and a carved and painted rose. Pareidolia is a very common effect that occurs to most people. Our brains are hardwired that way as a survival mechanism. If you search the forum you will find whole topics on look a likes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyw Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 Here are some pictures of what real embryos in eggs look like 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members Hutch888 Posted August 27 Author New Members Share Posted August 27 Please forgive me for my uneducated observations my friends..I respect everyone's years of dedication to this science and field of study..however I dare ask the collective of professionals here..are there examples of these type of fossils crystalizing our perhaps being subjected to different minerals and atmospheric conditions that might cause something like this to potentially occur. https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202401/03/WS6594bda1a3105f21a507a476.html Again I'm not discrediting anyone's expertise however its somewhat intriguing that nobody is acknowledging the very basic and physical structure of this piece..just examining the shape and details between where the neck and head meet and transitioning to the back and spine area.. it's not my imagination or some type of brain impairment lol..that's honestly what it looks like..it might not be something that fits the standard or normal attributes of what you professionals are used to seeing.. I'm truly not trying to offend anyone or create conflict but I'm also pretty intelligent, and can recognize when something is organic or naturally formed and the small details that cant just beeb there by chance or some random coincidence..there's blatantly a head attached to a body and wether y'all can see it or if you disagree I do appreciate your insight and would love some help or guidance on how to go about testing the actual material that is creating this make believe geode dinosaur im seeing..😇🫣👍🏻😁🤠🤦🏻♂️🗿 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty micraster Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 A very close up photo could show the crystal structure, but it would only show further that it is not an embryo. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreik Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 1 hour ago, Hutch888 said: it might not be something that fits the standard or normal attributes of what you professionals are used to seeing.. I'm truly not trying to offend anyone or create conflict but I'm also pretty intelligent, and can recognize when something is organic or naturally formed and the small details that cant just beeb there by chance or some random coincidence..there's blatantly a head attached to a body and wether y'all can see it or if you disagree I do appreciate your insight and would love some help or guidance on how to go about testing the actual material that is creating this make believe geode dinosaur im seeing.. Believe it or not, it is a pretty normal celestine geode. You don't have to agree with people opinion but don't forget that you are here because you don't know what you are looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 And that you’re on a science forum ! And not on FB and other social networks that regularly show drifts. Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Pareidolia : here Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 2 hours ago, Hutch888 said: there's blatantly a head attached to a body and wether y'all can see it or if you disagree I do appreciate your insight and would love some help or guidance on how to go about testing the actual material that is creating this make believe geode dinosaur im seeing Well, I'm now standing in the queue of participants here who disagree with you and agree with the assessment that this is a celestite geode. Of course I can see the resemblance to a head attached to a body, just as well as I can see interesting shapes in clouds. As to the help and guidance which you are requesting, please take your sample to your nearest university geology department or natural science museum for analysis as Fin Lover has already suggested. 1 Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyw Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 2 hours ago, Hutch888 said: Please forgive me for my uneducated observations my friends..I respect everyone's years of dedication to this science and field of study..however I dare ask the collective of professionals here..are there examples of these type of fossils crystalizing our perhaps being subjected to different minerals and atmospheric conditions that might cause something like this to potentially occur. Questions are good as long as you’re trying to learn and willing to listen. In your example link you posted you will notice that the eggshell is intact the embryo (if there was one) has rotted away leaving a void that later filled with crystals. Essentially making a geode inside the eggshell. Theres no trace of the embryo inside but you can clearly make out the eggshell surrounding it. It’s the dark circle. What you’re proposing on your piece is that the eggshell and inside of the “embryo” rotted away but left the outside for the crystal to grow in and replace the embryo. Wich is unfortunatly impossible. You have a beautiful geode here where the outer crust ( the yellowish/tan colored part) has partially worn away into an interesting shape and exposing the inner crystal center of the geode. It’s a nice piece but not a fossil of any kind. Geodes can form in any kind of a cavity if conditions are right. In the case of the link you posted the eggshell fossilized but the insides didnt, probably a blighted ovum where the embryos never developed to begin with. Over centuries the crystals filled the interior. It’s rare but it does happen. at the stage you’re proposing your “embryo” is at the embryo is mostly water and cells. There’s nothing at that stage to fossilize. Also in your first picture you’ve drawn what you think the embryo shape should look like and where the eye would be but where is it on the other side? All life like that has a symmetry if it’s on one side it’s on the other…. If you still don’t believe us then take it to your nearest museum with a paleontologist on staff and report back their findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Hi and welcome. Just some thoughts I have to add: -I agree that this special geode resembles the general shape of that special drawing of an embyo. -I am also sure it is no embryo fossils because although the general shape is right, there is no detail that fits. -Perfectly preserved embryos are not the thing to compare this to, of course there are other modes of preservation. -Fossils can be overgrown by crystals, but there is not a trace of fossil visible in your specimen, just a general shape. -Pareidolia is no brain impairment but a usefull feature of any humans brain that helps find structures, but sometimes finds things that are not there. -Imagine seeing the same shape in a cloud, I guess you would just say "cool, that cloud loks like a dino", but not " its undeniably a cloudified embryo." -When there are a lot of geodes with different shapes and one looks like a dino, the chances are high its coincidence. Happens often with karst rocks, lots of somehow bonelike looking rocks, one that resembles a pelvis, it just happens. Context helps. Look at other celestite geodes online. -Take it to a museum if you are still convinced, do not expect to much. Best regards, J 1 Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 If you do a search on this forum for "dinosaur egg" you will likely find many dozens of new members who have come to this forum with a geode, concretion, or many times just a round rock claiming to have found a fossilized egg with dinosaur embryo inside. You are not the first and you certainly will not be the last. People who are inexperienced with fossils often find a naturally formed (geologic) rock and assume because there is a suggestion of a resemblance to something they've seen in a museum or on TV that they must the lucky enough to have found a fossil so special that science can't even explain it. Their fossil must be what they believe it to be (hope it to be) despite the science of physics, paleontology and logic. Their counterargument to all the evidence to the contrary is "But if you could just see it in person the way I see it". More photos are posted from various angles and lines are sketched over the image to accentuate the features they believe they are seeing. While each new member believes they have found something unique and special, they unfortunately are too common and fall into a predictable pattern. Pareidolia (combined with a lack of knowledge about how fossils form) is a powerful trap to the uninitiated. It is difficult to convince them that their special exciting find won't be confirmed here. After a series of replies from experienced members and even professional paleontologists, the original poster usually feels they are being personally attacked (though we welcome new members and try to educate). Soon the argument turns to science not understanding how this special fossil could have formed (contrary to physics and logic) and that we are trapped in "textbook learning" and cannot "think outside the box". Soft tissue does not mineralize in the way you believe it might to be able to form your "embryo". Many of the members on this forum also collect rocks and minerals and understand geologic processes that can form things like geodes that resemble things. We commonly see rocks like yours but we have the experience in fossils to recognize the difference between fossils and pseudo-fossils. Many of us have a small collection of "fakers" among our actual fossils because sometimes Mother Nature is a prankster and creates some really amazing mimics. We've even devoted a topic on this forum to these finds. https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/90731-pseudofossils-pareidolia-and-other-rorschachery/ You rock is undeniably what it appears to the rest of us--a geode. You will not get a different answer from any professional paleontologist. You can choose to believe us and learn about fossils and how they form or you can choose to believe what pareidolia suggests to you and assume we are all ignorant (or jealous) and have a reason to discredit your amazing discovery. If it were real we would very quickly direct you to the proper paleontologists who could study this item, publish, and let the world know of its existence. We've actually done that with a number of scientifically important specimens that have appeared on our forum. Your item is simply a geode that bears a slight resemblance to a dinosaur embryo or a seahorse. Please accept it for the humorous coincidence that it is. Cheers. -Ken 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 8 hours ago, Hutch888 said: Please forgive me for my uneducated observations my friends..I respect everyone's years of dedication to this science and field of study..however I dare ask the collective of professionals here..are there examples of these type of fossils crystalizing our perhaps being subjected to different minerals and atmospheric conditions that might cause something like this to potentially occur. https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202401/03/WS6594bda1a3105f21a507a476.html Again I'm not discrediting anyone's expertise however its somewhat intriguing that nobody is acknowledging the very basic and physical structure of this piece..just examining the shape and details between where the neck and head meet and transitioning to the back and spine area.. it's not my imagination or some type of brain impairment lol..that's honestly what it looks like..it might not be something that fits the standard or normal attributes of what you professionals are used to seeing.. I'm truly not trying to offend anyone or create conflict but I'm also pretty intelligent, and can recognize when something is organic or naturally formed and the small details that cant just beeb there by chance or some random coincidence..there's blatantly a head attached to a body and wether y'all can see it or if you disagree I do appreciate your insight and would love some help or guidance on how to go about testing the actual material that is creating this make believe geode dinosaur im seeing..😇🫣👍🏻😁🤠🤦🏻♂️🗿 Here is the image of a "Crystalized egg" from the link you provided: Here is one of your images: Note the lack of a distinctive egg shell around your item. I've highlighted it in the article image. I see none of the details you are suggesting in this item. No bilateral symmetry, no skeletal structures, no fossil evidence of any kind. Unfortunately, we must agree to disagree. If you are still convinced about your item, please take it to a Natural History Museum, or College or University and have a paleontologist have a look at it. Maybe they can explain why it isn't what you believe it to be. Topic is now LOCKED, as nothing further can be learned here. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 IPFOTM -- MAY - 2024 _________________________________________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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