SE Texas - Small hoof core?

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

This small bone was found in SE Texas on a river gravel bank. This is the Beaumont Formation and I find a few Pleistocene specimens here. So this is the smallest (what I believe is) hoof core that I've ever found. It has some wear to the back side of it which would confirm it was a hoof for me... but the curve of it gives me hope it is.  I just haven't seen one this small and when I compare to deer... they seem more pointed and not as round as this one is. Even with the wear mine has... I still don't see deer. Could be wrong tho. Also found the smallest calcaneum I've ever found which looks like a deer... so maybe the hoof is deer? Having found the pronghorn tooth... could it be something like that or early horse? Thanks for your thoughts.

[C2fossils]

The hoof core is some small Horse (Equus), The calcaneus looks like deer to me though. Nice find! I don't know how it is there but where I hunt, horse stuff is pretty rare.

[Shellseeker]

I do not think you have small horse..  This is a cast from the UF MNH.  I was very fortunate to win it in an auction..

 

 

Your hoof core is about the size of Parahippus... It can not be equus.  and it is not close enough to what a pre_equus hoofcore would look like.

 

I would consider peccary or tapir based on size. It resembles Rhino , but I think can not be, due to size

 

 

[Shellseeker]

10 hours ago, johnnyvaldez7.jv said:

This small bone was found in SE Texas on a river gravel bank. This is the Beaumont Formation and I find a few Pleistocene specimens here.

For what it is worth,  I think you may have what @Brandy Cole found a couple of years back. Maybe she Identified it... Some of Harry's photos on Rhino and Tapir are interesting

 

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

@Shellseeker Thank you for your thoughts and for the link. I think it does look familiar with the one @Brandy Cole found. It is the same size... and has the same roundness.  Brandy did u ever get an ID on yours? I will look at tapir, rhino, and peccary as well. 

[Plantguy]

6 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

I do not think you have small horse..  This is a cast from the UF MNH.  I was very fortunate to win it in an auction..

 

 

Your hoof core is about the size of Parahippus... It can not be equus.  and it is not close enough to what a pre_equus hoofcore would look like.

 

I would consider peccary or tapir based on size. It resembles Rhino , but I think can not be, due to size

 

 

Another cool find Johnny!

Those are mighty cool Jack!! What a score as reference material! @Shellseeker

Interesting discussion in trying to narrow down an ID here. I'm always learning something in these, especially aboutvertebrates/bones! I always was curious about how when you are measuring bones how juveniles/immature specimens are accounted for in the specimen size ranges. While I was trying to find info on that question/subject I ran across some more horse stuff in this article that is partially relevant...equid hoof shape and size. Lots of cool info about horse feet within...

 

Hipparion tracks and horses' toes: the evolution of the equid single hoof

Alan R. Vincelette, Elise Renders, Kathleen M. Scott, Peter L. Falkingham and Christine M. Janis

The Royal Society May 2023

vincelette-et-al-2023-hipparion-tracks-and-horses-toes-the-evolution-of-the-equid-single-hoof.pdf

 

Regards, Chris 

[Shellseeker]

1 hour ago, Plantguy said:

Those are mighty cool Jack!! What a score as reference material! @Shellseeker

Interesting discussion in trying to narrow down an ID here. I'm always learning something in these, especially aboutvertebrates/bones! I always was curious about how when you are measuring bones how juveniles/immature specimens are accounted for in the specimen size ranges. While I was trying to find info on that question/subject I ran across some more horse stuff in this article that is partially relevant...equid hoof shape and size. Lots of cool info about horse feet within...

 

 

Richard Hulbert always would say "There is nothing like having a find in hand and a Research Lab full of identified fossils."  I could only wish that I had comparative bones for all my finds. What made me bid more on this item was @digitsignature

 

I have had the same thoughts on sizes associated with juvenile specimens.  I tend to think of juvenile teeth as one offs in a discussion of Large mammals (with the exceptions of the Proboscidea).  I love reference materials especially recommended on TFF.  Will try to get to this PDF this weekend. 

 

 

[Shellseeker]

20 hours ago, johnnyvaldez7.jv said:

Also found the smallest calcaneum I've ever found which looks like a deer... so maybe the hoof is deer? Having found the pronghorn tooth... could it be something like that or early horse? Thanks for your thoughts.

Well, It is not Peccary... got this one off Nate's Website.  Flat bottom, skinny, not wide..  You should check prong horn..  Horse, Rhino,  and Tapir are all Perissodactyla..  makes sense they would have similar hoof cores,  and Tapir is the smallest of the 3...

[Brandy Cole]

I never did confirm an ID for mine. It compared fairly well with equus, even though I was  hoping for pre-equus.  I think mine likely was not outside the bounds of size possibility for a very young equus foal.

 

I would be excited to consider tapir as a possibility because it almost looks too chunky to me to be equus. But I think the level of wear also complicates identification on both our pieces.

 

Here, I have comparison pictures between my equus hoof core and my little hoof.

[Shellseeker]

4 minutes ago, Brandy Cole said:

Here, I have comparison pictures between my equus hoof core and my little hoof.

 

Thanks for the comparisons.  I understand  why you and others might consider these finds as small Equus (either pre_Equus which I will have to educate myself on or a very juvenile hoof core).. 

I have looked at these great comparisons from Harry.  Considering the similarities between Equus and Tapir  hoof cores ,  I am not sure how I could possibly say it is a  juvenile Equus or adult Tapir... especially with wear  taken into account.

 

[Jaybot]

That really is a great reference photo, I had no idea rhino cores looked so odd.

Speaking of @Harry Pristis, I noted he hasn’t been active for a while.  I hope everything is ok.

[Shellseeker]

12 hours ago, Jaybot said:

That really is a great reference photo, I had no idea rhino cores looked so odd.

Speaking of @Harry Pristis, I noted he hasn’t been active for a while.  I hope everything is ok.

It does seem unusual.  Harry was last active 6 weeks ago.  He is active on many other  Fossil and Artifact forums, but I have not checked anything recent.