Shellseeker Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 I have been anxious to get back hunting the Peace River. Last time out was over a month ago. It was a challenging day. This spot has consistent low water compared to the rest of the river. But today , the shallowest spots were 4 inches above my waist with a strong current to deal with. There is a saying... any day on the Peace is a good day... any day with a Meg is a Great day Not the best Meg I have found, but on this day a pretty good find. A shark vert, a Cutlass fish tooth, an Aduncus or Contortus, Armadillo Lots of variety,, worth the effort.. a very good day.. I picked up a bone... and I thought it looked familiar... maybe a Calcaneum. Thought I would try to Identify. Please comment, even if you think it is NOT a calcaneum, but another bone. Enjoy... Jack 9 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 The parts of this bone not broken are in great shape. The last photo above shows the breaks clearly on the "front", but the 2 sides are almost perfect... In the 1st , there is a bowl like depression that should be a differentiator. In the 2nd , the head/top of the bone is unbroken.. and side to side, not robust and not round. xxxx A better view of the Head/top , the relative thinness of the width,, and the curling ridge going down the back of the bone. Initially , I thought it was a Giant Armadillo Calcaneum (and it may still be ) but now I am also looking at Ulnas. Need some of those Texans who have struggled with this question Calcaneum versus Ulna to chime in. @Brandy Cole, @ClearLake, @johnnyvaldez7.jv@garycThanks The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 I get a hint of an ulna from your second pic, but I don’t think it’s ulna because the first and second pic should be more similar. It doesn’t look like any calcanea I’ve seen, but I haven’t found any holmesina or glyptodon. Does the texture of the bone seem remotely gator like? Not sure if I can be of any more help, Jack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 Gary, Thanks for the response. I am not that familiar with Ulna bones, but I'll look at Alligator bones before I go after Ulnas. The bone is solid, heavier than it looks. It had to be somewhat hidden over time. The Peace River current and sand will "polish" a bone over 20 years. I am also finding both similarities with Armadillo. Here is another of Harry's photos. The Armadillo seems too robust compared to my bone.. 2 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 Hey Jack, more interesting finds! I was struck by how dense and chert like the one surface of the unknown is that in certain photos and then you mentioned how heavy it was... I dont have a clue what bone type you've got but dense and your heavy comment for its size makes me pause and wonder about aquatic types not terrestrial critters. I know degree of preservation/mineralization can effect things dramatically but around here in central Florida it makes me wonder...but I'm not a bone person at all! Hoping you track it down.. So the other thing that peaked my interest in your thread is the photo of the cutlassfish tooth. Those guys are very rare for some reason and are of particular interest as they are on the list of those fish that have Tilly bones. I'm really curious about it. What does the other side look like? Is it identical in pattern or worn/similar? That surface pattern is really interesting. It looks to have a central core or ridge? or is that the optics of the lens creating that? Is it hollow? Cool stuff! Thanks! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted September 5 Author Share Posted September 5 Chris, getting late , so maybe I'll come back to this in the morning. Good eyes... Here are 2 additional photos of the fish tooth from this thread. This looks more like it was broken off... but the inside is solid tooth right from the break.. and there is a slight depression along the length of the tooth, similar to a Sawfish Rostral tooth.. and a side by side photo of the Cutlass tooth from a month ago... Cutlass tooth is 10 mm, new tooth 20 mm, both found in the same location. The focus on the Cutlass tooth seems to blur the rest of the photo.. Thanks for the response, I think I will send the Calcaneum to Richard/Rachel since I have looked at all fauna I can think of and can not find a match... Lets see what @digitmay say about the fish teeth. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 8 hours ago, Shellseeker said: Lets see what @digitmay say about the fish teeth. Interesting find but it is not a Trichiuridae. Might benefit from other angles--not convinced that it is a tooth as it seems to have striated bony texture. Possibly a worn fish spine? Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 24 minutes ago, digit said: Interesting find but it is not a Trichiuridae. Might benefit from other angles--not convinced that it is a tooth as it seems to have striated bony texture. Possibly a worn fish spine? Cheers. -Ken If not a tooth, could it be some really narrow small distal portion of a rib from a soft shell turtle? I dont know what their cross section looks like. I wonder what other options there might be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 14 minutes ago, Plantguy said: If not a tooth, could it be some really narrow small distal portion of a rib from a soft shell turtle? Just showed this to Jason Bourque (turtle/tortoise expert) here at the FLMNH. We agree that it isn't turtle but looks "fishy" as in bone (not tooth). Cheers. -Ken 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 1 hour ago, digit said: Just showed this to Jason Bourque (turtle/tortoise expert) here at the FLMNH. We agree that it isn't turtle but looks "fishy" as in bone (not tooth). Cheers. -Ken cool, thanks Ken. I love unsolved mysteries sort of...lol Regards, Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 As do I. Mysteries often lead to additional knowledge--but sometimes they remain mysteries. Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted September 5 Author Share Posted September 5 22 hours ago, garyc said: I get a hint of an ulna from your second pic, but I don’t think it’s ulna because the first and second pic should be more similar. It doesn’t look like any calcanea I’ve seen, but I haven’t found any holmesina or glyptodon. Does the texture of the bone seem remotely gator like? Not sure if I can be of any more help, Jack. I did take a look at Alligator bones... This is a Calcaneum and more like the texture I normally see on Alligator The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted September 5 Author Share Posted September 5 4 hours ago, digit said: Interesting find but it is not a Trichiuridae. Might benefit from other angles--not convinced that it is a tooth as it seems to have striated bony texture. Possibly a worn fish spine? Cheers. 4 hours ago, Plantguy said: If not a tooth, could it be some really narrow small distal portion of a rib from a soft shell turtle? I dont know what their cross section looks like. I wonder what other options there might be? -Ken New photo... I am getting the feeling of Sawfish rostral tooth... what say you? Cross section.. Maybe I knew ... Rostral teeth grow in layers ? Are striations unusual for Rostral teeth? 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 Given the new photos--positively! It's got the groove on the posterior edge so it is Pristis sp. Cheers. -Ken 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossillarry Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Hi Jack I have examined the photos of the larger bone fragment and have made the following observations. It's a relatively large piece composed of dense cortical bone and no apparent cancellous (spongy) bone tissue. Its irregular shape is hard to interpret, it could be related to some anatomical features or due preservation history. I am sure it is not a calcaneus and is probably indeterminate. The second bone fragment is also composed of dense bone and squairish in shape. I have seen distal bone fragments of horse medipodial 2 or 4 that look like this, so maybe??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted September 6 Author Share Posted September 6 2 hours ago, fossillarry said: Hi Jack I have examined the photos of the larger bone fragment and have made the following observations. It's a relatively large piece composed of dense cortical bone and no apparent cancellous (spongy) bone tissue. Its irregular shape is hard to interpret, it could be related to some anatomical features or due preservation history. I am sure it is not a calcaneus and is probably indeterminate. The second bone fragment is also composed of dense bone and squairish in shape. I have seen distal bone fragments of horse medipodial 2 or 4 that look like this, so maybe??? Thanks for the response: My bad: I should have identified the squarish bone. I keep some fossils to donate to my fossil club raffle. It is a Dugong Vert process: Yes, I am running out of Florida fauna to compare this bone, and never found a Calcaneus or Ulna that was even close. I have sent off an email with my best photos , asking Richard Hulbert to give me a direction... I'll post his reply here. Good to hear from you. I am anxious to get back to those locations that produced little horse teeth... so I can learn more from you. Jack 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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