Periodic Paleo Posting - The Pie Cabinet

[bockryan]

4 hours ago, Bringing Fossils to Life said:

Could they be Ponticeras perlatum?

 

It looks remarkably similar to my untrained eye, but this exposure is Early Devonian, and the example on that page comes from a Late Devonian formation. Possible that genus appeared earlier though, so a good suggestion. @NickG did you have any thoughts on A. vanuxemi vs. A. oliveri for these? I don't know if there's anyone on the forum that really likes goniatites, if anyone does please tag them  

[NickG]

If House is right — he erected Agoniatites oliveri for these forms. 

[bockryan]

31 minutes ago, NickG said:

If House is right — he erected Agoniatites oliveri for these forms. 

 

Got it, so all depends on the validity of that taxa.

 

It has been a few days since an update, I've had some weddings to attend and have been out doing some collecting. Trip to Texas coming up that will also include a bit of fossil collecting, so hopefully some new additions to the display case from that coming up. For now we'll return to the Permian with another fossil from the outcrop of Cassville Shale that I visit from time to time in Carmichaels, Pennsylvania. This is likely an example of Spiropteris sp., or a "fiddlehead" of a growing "fern" or fern-like plant. I went back and forth on the ID for this one a bit, as I could still be convinced it is some type of trace fossil, with Zoophycos being what I initially looked at.

 

If it is a fiddlehead, there is a nice explanation from ESCONI here: https://www.esconi.org/esconi_earth_science_club/2024/03/mazon-monday-207-spiropteris-sp-fossils-paleontology-fern-mazoncreek-mazonmonday-pennsylvanian.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

The label is currently:

Spiropteris sp.

Carmichaels, PA

Cassville Shale

Early Permian

[bockryan]

@Nimravis not from Mazon, but wondering if the above reminds you of anything you've seen or if you'd agree with IDing it as a fiddlehead?

[NickG]

I think my biggest issue for most of the examples we have collected is that they aren’t preserved well enough to show that slight bit of ornamentation that would help from distinguishing other similarly aged ammonoids. I really need to break down into that this winter.

[NickG]

12 hours ago, NickG said:

I think my biggest issue for most of the examples we have collected is that they aren’t preserved well enough to show that slight bit of ornamentation that would help from distinguishing other similarly aged ammonoids. I really need to break down into that this winter.

Ryan, if you don't have this paper, you should download it.

https://www.palass.org/publications/special-papers-palaeontology/archive/21/article_pp1-70

 

You collected this from a well known locality for Agoniatites oliveri House, 1978, but again, we have to be sure whether A. oliveri is truly distinct from A. vanuxemi (Hall, 1879). My understanding in reading the paper is that House received a sample from W.A. Oliver of agoniatite ammonoids (40 or so specimens) from this site (26 were collected here) and also from several localities (Berkeley Springs, Saumsville, O'Neill Gap, and Gainsboro), but did not collect himself. It would be interesting to closely examine all of our ammonoids and determine if perhaps there is greater diversity present. It is surprising to me how despite how well known this site is, that we don't see more people reporting their finds online of this, especially as that same layer should crop out at the better collected Needmore localities in the same region (Lost River). I've never seen this ammonoid rich layer at the other sites cited by House (pp. 25-26).

 

 

[bockryan]

34 minutes ago, NickG said:

Ryan, if you don't have this paper, you should download it.

https://www.palass.org/publications/special-papers-palaeontology/archive/21/article_pp1-70

 

You collected this from a well known locality for Agoniatites oliveri House, 1978, but again, we have to be sure whether A. oliveri is truly distinct from A. vanuxemi (Hall, 1879). My understanding in reading the paper is that House received a sample from W.A. Oliver of agoniatite ammonoids (40 or so specimens) from this site (26 were collected here) and also from several localities (Berkeley Springs, Saumsville, O'Neill Gap, and Gainsboro), but did not collect himself. It would be interesting to closely examine all of our ammonoids and determine if perhaps there is greater diversity present. It is surprising to me how despite how well known this site is, that we don't see more people reporting their finds online of this, especially as that same layer should crop out at the better collected Needmore localities in the same region (Lost River). I've never seen this ammonoid rich layer at the other sites cited by House (pp. 25-26).

 

 

 

I have seen a small collection of ammonoids at a layer in the Lost River quarry, but it was ephemeral. I did get one nice one which is also in my display, I can try posting it soon. I do wonder if it is the same species. Thanks for the paper, very helpful. I can also post a few photos of another nice specimen I have from Capon Lake.

 

Here is the one from Lost River:

 

 

The sutures on this one do look different, but it is even more compressed than the Capon Lake ones so difficult to tell. I can get some better photos soon.

[NickG]

That’s definitely a different taxon