Stelladens ?!

[Brevicollis]

I just picked this tooth up at a "Kirppu" Loppemarket in Denmark for a few Euro.

As far as I know, a Stelladens mysterious tooth must have at least an auxiliary carina that creates a V shaped trench with the other carinae. This tooth has an auxiliary carina that creates a V shaped trench.

So did I just made the bargain of the century ?

The tooth measures 3,6cm, and is from the Ouled Abdun basin, morocco.

 

Thanks for any help !

 

@pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon, @Praefectus, @jnoun11, @North, @Kikokuryu

Edited yesterday at 08:10 AM by Brevicollis

[Brevicollis]

A few better pictures...

It seems to have serrations on the auxiliary carina, and a sharply V shaped gully.

@pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon, what do you think ?

[Brevicollis]

I just noticed that it just looks almost identical to Alexanders Stelladens mysteriosus tooth, just a bit smaller and the auxiliary carina is also a bit shorter, but on the same position.

[Kikokuryu]

I don't think this is a Stelladens. Looks more like a pathology. Now, it is possible that Stelladens was some descendant of a mosasaurs with those patho traits, but there's a lot of unknowns, and a lot of patho mosasaurs mistaken for it.

 

But the true Stelladens should be very exaggerated, like a screwdriver, or as it's name suggests, like a star.

[Brevicollis]

Thanks !

But I still think it could be likely a different morphtype of a Stelladens mysterious tooth, a similar morphtype as Alexandes tooth. The carinar positioning is just the same, my tooth has just a shorter auxiliary carina. But there is just so less known about this species, no full denture has been found, and I heard some rumors about papers that might be released in the future, that would argue the existence of Stelladens mysteriosus, and that it was a pathology all along.

 

Let me just label it as Stelladens mysteriosus cf. or possible Stelladens mysteriosus. I think everyone would be happy with that.

[Brevicollis]

Also, @Kikokuryu, are you really sure that your left tooth is actually Stelladens mysteriosus ? I recently stumbled upon your YouTube channel, and a short video about your left Stelladens tooth. I think it has more going on than just Stelladens, the split and rejoin carina rather suggests a pathology in my opinion. Also, I'm not able to see any crenulations on it 

Edited yesterday at 09:33 AM by Brevicollis

[Kikokuryu]

41 minutes ago, Brevicollis said:

Also, @Kikokuryu, are you really sure that your left tooth is actually Stelladens mysteriosus ? I recently stumbled upon your YouTube channel, and a short video about your left Stelladens tooth. I think it has more going on than just Stelladens, the split and rejoin carina rather suggests a pathology in my opinion. Also, I'm not able to see any crenulations on it 

It does have a pathology, but other characteristic seem consistent with Stelladens, particularly the morph described in the paper having a flat labial surface. One exception is that it does seem to lack serrations, or that they are worn down. This tooth does have significant wear.

 

If Stelladens does turn out to be a nomen dubium, then this tooth could be a star-patho of a Mosasaurus beaugei (or something closely related to it) based on the facets on the flat side. Could be something else entirely.

 

Not sure what currently described taxa it could be attributed to if Stelladens isn't a valid genus. If it is a valid genus, then maybe a transitional species or morph of sort?

 

@Praefectus might have more insight on this sort of thing.

Edited yesterday at 10:05 AM by Kikokuryu

[North]

Sorry, but I would also think tooth is rather pathological.

 

But there is lot of variation how weird possible Stelladens teeth are. Some look quite normal beside V-carinae and then there is star shaped ones in species description. But there is lot that we do not know yet.

[Brevicollis]

Ok, thanks !

But I'm still not really convinced, I still think it is one. Its just so similar to Alexanders Stelladens tooth, and I didnt hear really any reasons, whats the difference that would make this tooth just a pathology ?

What makes this tooth a pathology in your opinions, maybe this now might be a bit far fetched, but could these two "Stelladens" teeth that were identified as such, also just be pathological ?

[Brevicollis]

Now that I am home again and have my good camera and magnification glass, I took a few pictures, maybe now its clearer to determine Stelladens or pathology. The auxiliary carina is definetly crenulated and/or serrated, and a sharply V shaped gully also 

@pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon, might you please bring a final answer to this debate 

If really a pathology, of what species then ? Thalassotitan atrox and Eremiasaurus heterodontus would be my first answers if so.

[jnoun11]

Hi Brevicollis

Until I will see stelladens on a jaws, to me they are just pathologics teeth.

Never see before some stelladens teeth on a piece of bones.

Wait and see, if somebody have stelladens maxillary or dentary pictures feel free to show us, that will help to see if stelladens is a new specie or its just pathologic of on existing specie.

 

[Brevicollis]

Hi @jnoun11, I saw this rooted Stelladens mysteriosus tooth some while ago. I know that you cant compare to a skull or a full dentary, but for now I actually think that this is the biggest find for this species so far, if the root is even real.

But this is definetly a tooth on a bone 

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

1 hour ago, Brevicollis said:

Hi @jnoun11, I saw this rooted Stelladens mysteriosus tooth some while ago. I know that you cant compare to a skull or a full dentary, but for now I actually think that this is the biggest find for this species so far, if the root is even real.

But this is definetly a tooth on a bone 

 

Too bad tooth roots are even less diagnostic than teeth themselves...!

 

Anyway, your tooth does seem to have the characteristics of what we call Stelladens. At the same time, as Serge said: without us having finds of teeth actually attached to diagnostic sections of jaw bone, validity of the genus remains questionable...

Edited 1 hour ago by pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon