Gravel Beds - "butter Zone"

[Megalodon_hunter]

Let me preface this with.. I am a complete Amateur with minimal college or self education in paleontology. I am complete Noob.

However I approach everything I do some seriousness.

That said.......

I am trying a couple experiments in sifting and excavation. I believe there is a "Butter Zone" a specific depth that sediments of specific size and weight will settle. I am going to try to dig a specific depth over a specific area using a systematic approach.

To determine where fossils are more likely to settle in a gravel bed.

I am returning to Peace River for a third attempt this year to uncover Megalodon, Mako and anything else that I find. I've had alot of

luck with requiems.. Sheesh I have over 250 of em from a single trip.

[Auspex]

You already know where the requiems congregate; time to go for the big boys

I spent 15 years trying to figure out the sorting dynamics of the tidal Potomac at Virginia's Calvert exposures, and concluded that my lucky socks (being the ones I happened to be wearing when I did well) had more to do with it there. That was a much more dynamic environment, though, than a non-tidal river, so your efforts might pay off.

"Dig deep", I always say.

[Shellseeker]

I am trying a couple experiments in sifting and excavation. I believe there is a "Butter Zone" a specific depth that sediments of specific size and weight will settle. I am going to try to dig a specific depth over a specific area using a systematic approach.

I have limited experience, but it "seems to pay off sometimes" .. During low water levels , I found a spot that clearly had not had a lot of action, since I was finding larger Hemis and some mammal teeth. Not the kinds of fossils that would be missed.

So , I was digging there, good finds but not great, and went down another foot deeper and found a 2.25 inch meg.. There were layers, a layer of sand , then small gravel, then sand, then larger gravel... the larger gravel was in the 2 inch variety.. I went back over and over again, and at the approximate same depth within the same layer , I ended up finding a total of eight 2-2.25 inch megs.

I thought it a little strange that there are layers of larger and smaller gravel in the same spot...

Soon after, the spot was "discovered" and basically cleaned out... I go back occasionally , but do not find very much using the same techniques..

[bear-dog]

I may have to blame it on my lucky socks also,but all my Peace River Megs were found on top of the river bottom.No digging required.While your digging feel for a layer that feels like soggy clay,that is where you find all the pristine fossils at.

[Megalodon_hunter]

!!!lucky socks!!!! ROFL!! I need a pair.. I got a tattoo of a green fairy on my left shoulder.. She watched my back and gives me luck.

Well I suppose we must think of the river bed in a few ways.

#1. Erosion from the banks washing fossils into the river during flood. (Peace was flooded Sept). These would be on the initial layer of sediment.

#2. Erosion form the current. The river push sediment towards the ocean and tumbling heavier objects deeper into the gravel.

#3. Add time to the equation. How many hundreds of years does this process occur. Will give you a reasonable idea of where you will

find the bigger and older fossils.

Depending on what location we can get a general idea of what depth we must go?

Sound right?

[Harry Pristis]

. . .

Depending on what location we can get a general idea of what depth we must go?

Sound right?

No, not right.

The Peace River has experienced high-energy flooding for tens of thousands of years. Every flood scours the banks and the bottom, mostly excavating fossils previously excavated and buried by an earlier flood. It's all float.

This is why articulated skeletons are not found and why Mio-Pliocene shark teeth are found in the same sediments as Pleistocene mammal teeth. These teeth, deposited at different ages and in different environments, may be found together at the surface or under a foot of sand and gravel in the same area. It all depends on the latest mix.

If you're lucky (and persistent) you may find a tooth that hasn't gone through this excavation-burial process too many times.

[RickNC]

No, not right.

The Peace River has experienced high-energy flooding for tens of thousands of years. Every flood scours the banks and the bottom, mostly excavating fossils previously excavated and buried by an earlier flood. It's all float.

This is why articulated skeletons are not found and why Mio-Pliocene shark teeth are found in the same sediments as Pleistocene mammal teeth. These teeth, deposited at different ages and in different environments, may be found together at the surface or under a foot of sand and gravel in the same area. It all depends on the latest mix.

If you're lucky (and persistent) you may find a tooth that hasn't gone through this excavation-burial process too many times.

I figure GMR is the same situation. Everything is mixed together for the most part.

[tracer]

well, it even goes beyond that. regardless of the mix of old and new, once the junk is loose in the water, the mixing process has everything to do with physics, and the equations you would use trying to predict it all would make nasa swoon. you never set foot in the same river twice, because it constantly changes. there's a semi-infinite number of variables that determine whether that cool thing you find comes to hand, which to me means that everything i've found was meant to happen!11

<realizing he probably went too far, tracer suddenly falls silent>

<cues the crickets>

<giggle>

[fossiljunkie]

for me, anytime i dig and sift in gravel and have just common small teeth, a change in the consistency of the bottom material usually does the trick. if i've been digging in hard to dig gravel i usually move around to try to find some looser material to get down deeper. not loose sand, but as bear dog made reference to the loose clay areas have produced some great teeth for me. i refer to it as soupy clay.

in those areas when i can find it sandwiched between hard to dig areas i can often push a shovel in a foot deep or more without even using a foot on the shovel. sometimes i'll get close to 2 feet down in this consistency before loosing that soupy clay to more solid material. i have found that those sweet areas for me are very scattered in the creek and sometimes just a foot wide where it is different than the surrounding area.

that just happens to be the areas here in the creeks that i search. you'll find those spots in your creeks that produce for one reason or another, heavily hunted or not for various reasons. i'm sure all areas across the country it will be completely different but it is a very regular occurance that i find the nicest teeth of my day in that loose consistency. happy hunting

Edited October 27, 2010 by fossiljunkie

[RickNC]

for me, anytime i dig and sift in gravel and have just common small teeth, a change in the consistency of the bottom material usually does the trick. if i've been digging in hard to dig gravel i usually move around to try to find some looser material to get down deeper. not loose sand, but as bear dog made reference to the loose clay areas have produced some great teeth for me. i refer to it as soupy clay.

in those areas when i can find it sandwiched between hard to dig areas i can often push a shovel in a foot deep or more without even using a foot on the shovel. sometimes i'll get close to 2 feet down in this consistency before loosing that soupy clay to more solid material. i have found that those sweet areas for me are very scattered in the creek and sometimes just a foot wide where it is different than the surrounding area.

that just happens to be the areas here in the creeks that i search. you'll find those spots in your creeks that produce for one reason or another, heavily hunted or not for various reasons. i'm sure all areas across the country it will be completely different but it is a very regular occurance that i find the nicest teeth of my day in that loose consistency. happy hunting

I tend to find larger teeth where I find larger gravel. Once I hit pea gravel I rarely find anything with size.

[Megalodon_hunter]

for me, anytime i dig and sift in gravel and have just common small teeth, a change in the consistency of the bottom material usually does the trick. if i've been digging in hard to dig gravel i usually move around to try to find some looser material to get down deeper. not loose sand, but as bear dog made reference to the loose clay areas have produced some great teeth for me. i refer to it as soupy clay.

in those areas when i can find it sandwiched between hard to dig areas i can often push a shovel in a foot deep or more without even using a foot on the shovel. sometimes i'll get close to 2 feet down in this consistency before loosing that soupy clay to more solid material. i have found that those sweet areas for me are very scattered in the creek and sometimes just a foot wide where it is different than the surrounding area.

that just happens to be the areas here in the creeks that i search. you'll find those spots in your creeks that produce for one reason or another, heavily hunted or not for various reasons. i'm sure all areas across the country it will be completely different but it is a very regular occurance that i find the nicest teeth of my day in that loose consistency. happy hunting

Thanks for the insight! I haven't found anything over 1 inch 1/2 in the teeth department. I am always finding the strange small teeth. I think I have an example of almost every Requiem shark that has ever swam..(LOL)

I guess it's all about moving as much material as possible. Well Friday is rapidly approaching. My last chance to get in a fossil fix. I plan on seriously analyzing these attempts at least mentally.

[Megalodon_hunter]

No, not right.

The Peace River has experienced high-energy flooding for tens of thousands of years. Every flood scours the banks and the bottom, mostly excavating fossils previously excavated and buried by an earlier flood. It's all float.

This is why articulated skeletons are not found and why Mio-Pliocene shark teeth are found in the same sediments as Pleistocene mammal teeth. These teeth, deposited at different ages and in different environments, may be found together at the surface or under a foot of sand and gravel in the same area. It all depends on the latest mix.

If you're lucky (and persistent) you may find a tooth that hasn't gone through this excavation-burial process too many times.

I need to take a different route and exam the smaller creeks that feed peace.. I'm sure there has to be someway to understand how fossils are deposited in the river scenario. I'm not a local so I don't truly understand the lay of the land.

[bear-dog]

Cant tell you which creek to hunt,but if you find one with a lot of gators ,it is worth looking over your shoulder.

[Tea For One]

I figure GMR is the same situation. Everything is mixed together for the most part.

Hey Rick. I think you are right. it seems you have figured out a good plan for identifying locations of nice teeth, based upon that nice handful you found the other day. Hapy Hunting! TFO

[Tea For One]

I tend to find larger teeth where I find larger gravel. Once I hit pea gravel I rarely find anything with size.

Agree with you both. Pea gravel is not usually very productive, other than for Native American Indian artifacts, which can be just as rewarding as shark teeth. The areas where you can get a shovel deep into the sandy clay without having to push too hard, and where thegravel within it is large enough to sound "chunky" seems to produce good finds in many cases.

TFO