Fake Matrix

[Crinoid Queen]

I have herd of individuals whom prep fossils making a fake matrix out of the clay that the fossil is in plus adding a stabalizer. I have a crinoid that I found that I need to do something like that with.

I have exparamented with grinding the matrix down and adding water and modling shapes out of that and it is pritty strong but it will not adhere to the rock/fossil well. Does any one have any expierance with this? Thanx

-CQ

[Harry Pristis]

I have herd of individuals whom prep fossils making a fake matrix out of the clay that the fossil is in plus adding a stabalizer. I have a crinoid that I found that I need to do something like that with.

I have exparamented with grinding the matrix down and adding water and modling shapes out of that and it is pritty strong but it will not adhere to the rock/fossil well. Does any one have any expierance with this? Thanx

-CQ

You can experiment with ground matrix, perhaps adding a dollup of white glue to the mix.

Or, you can call the Illinois State Museum in Springfield and talk to someone on the interpretive staff. I am not aware of an interpretive museum on the UI campus, but the Field Museum in Chicago no doubt has a full-time interpretive staff.

Or, you can check with your local taxidermist or look at the catalog of a full-line taxidermy supplier for methods and supplies for making substrate.

Let us know what you find out.

[tracer]

link

[crabfossilsteve]

Crinoid Queen

I don't know what your matrix is there, but I routinely use a cement patch product called Rockite. I mix up a small batch and add various earthtone colors of acrylic paints to it match the matrix color. It will adhere nicely to limey shales and limestone. Hope that might help. You might have other cement patch products that do not have gravel or sand in them.

Crabfossilsteve

[Crinoid Queen]

link

So i would use the Butvar B-76?

[tracer]

So i would use the Butvar B-76?

that would be entirely up to you. many of the people i've talked to of late have been using cyanoacrylate glue. they then blast the surface with air abrasive and remove all external traces of the glue. a lot depends on how structurally strong you need the matrix to be, whether you want to work on it and shape it more after it's been fixed in place, what final finish/appearance you want, and whether you might ever wish to remove it.

[Foshunter]

Might look at unsanded or even sanded tile grout, it comes in a lot of earth tone colors and think you can buy dies to adjust to the correct color.--Tom

Edited November 17, 2010 by Foshunter

[Crinoid Queen]

that would be entirely up to you. many of the people i've talked to of late have been using cyanoacrylate glue. they then blast the surface with air abrasive and remove all external traces of the glue. a lot depends on how structurally strong you need the matrix to be, whether you want to work on it and shape it more after it's been fixed in place, what final finish/appearance you want, and whether you might ever wish to remove it.

I do not have an air abrasive unit. I want something that will adhere to the back and stabalize the area that is exposed so that I can go in from the other side of the crinoid and not have it fall apart on me. I want it to match the matrix and hold the fossil that is about it. Thanx

-CQ

[Terry Dactyll]

CQ.... You could always coat the back in a couple of layers of fibreglass resin and matting and then prep the crinoid from the front and just deal with the exposed resin surface to blend it in afterwards.... You could add your matrix dust mixture to this exposed surface...This would give you the strength you require.... Just cutting a chunk of rock on an electric tilesaw (which are pretty cheap) gives you the finest dust I find...

[Harry Pristis]

I do not have an air abrasive unit. I want something that will adhere to the back and stabalize the area that is exposed so that I can go in from the other side of the crinoid and not have it fall apart on me. I want it to match the matrix and hold the fossil that is about it. Thanx

-CQ

It sounds now like you want to prepare this crinoid. The technique you are describing is used on Messel vertebrates and other fossils in a crumbly matrix. Those fossils are prepared using polyester casting resin, I believe.

Expose one side of the fossil; square off the matrix; build a retaining wall around the margin of the slab; pour resin wall-to-wall over the exposed fossil to a depth of 3/16" to 1/4"; allow to cure; remove matrix from the underside of the newly-stabilized slab to expose your crinoid. Drips of resin around the margins can be snipped or ground off with your rotary grinder.

The surface of the polyester when exposed from the rear will contain enough original matrix to look reasonably natural. And, you can color the liquid polyester with tempera pigments (opaque gray or tan, for example) to approximate the matrix color.

Someone here will have more advice, I'm confident.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Harry Pristis

[jpc]

CQ-

I have experimented with similar techniques that Amy Davidson describes in tracer's link. Your suggestion of using a cyanoacrylate sounds good, but here is what I have found. Adding some powdered matrix to CA causes it to set up incredibly (read, uselessly ) fast. And, if that's not enough, the color, as far as my experiments go, is always very different than powdered matrix. If it structural support you want, use the Butvar B-76. Can you get your hands on some of that?

[oilshale]

CQ,

here is a thread where the Messel prep technique is explained: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php/topic/11748-zoic-scientific/page__p__134725__fromsearch__1#entry134725

Thomas

[Wrangellian]

This might be one of those "short, simple and wrong!" answers, but why not just use some regular cement? The stuff is made from limestone originally, after all, no? so I would think it should bond well enough to limestone, at least if you use enough of it.. or better yet if you only need to apply it to certain spots without needing it to act as a glue.

I haven't tried it myself yet but I guess if no one else is using it there must be a reason, but I haven't heard it.

[bear-dog]

Another question.Where can you purchase Aron Alpha Industrial crazy glue or the Paraloid B-72?

[BobWill]

This might be one of those "short, simple and wrong!" answers, but why not just use some regular cement? The stuff is made from limestone originally, after all, no? so I would think it should bond well enough to limestone, at least if you use enough of it.. or better yet if you only need to apply it to certain spots without needing it to act as a glue.

I haven't tried it myself yet but I guess if no one else is using it there must be a reason, but I haven't heard it.

Cement (Portland) by itself is pretty useless and will crack badly when set. Cement mixed with sand and gravel is concrete and the gravel seems wrong for this but cement mixed with sand is mortar and should set up hard enough if mixed fairly dry.

[bruce]

I've had pretty good luck using ground up matrix made into a paste with a 50% mixture of water and Elmers Glue. Its easy to cleanup with a damp rag, before letting it dry out and set. I have a chunk of I-beam and use a big hammer to grind up small chunks of matrix. I tried it out on a chunk of ammonite, just to see how it would look before I tacked a whole and better specimen. Here's the before and after shot.

I'[ve gotten so I save samples of all the different colors of matrix in little baggies, so i can mix and blend my own filler, if I need some. Unfortunately you have to experiment and mix up little portions, and let them dry so you can compare the final color. Once you mix in the glue/water mixture, your color changes, and the mixed-dry powder doesn't really give you an indication of the true final color. I've found out by trial and error and had to grind out the repair with a scribe, once it dried and I didn't like how it had turned out.

[grampa dino]

I to have made Matrix ,but I use a glue called "Weldbond"

I have even used it to glue plates and bone together