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IDENTIFICATION CHALLENGE FOR BONE COLLECTORS NO. 2.


Harry Pristis

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Here is a pic of some bones which I've collected in the SE of the USA. Similar bones can be found (theoretically) over a wide area east of the Rockies.

Suggestion: Start by identifying the ORDER, then try to ID the FAMILY.

So, help out here with an ID. Get all four correct and win a golden kudo!

-------Harry Pristis

post-1-1189967285_thumb.jpg

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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Just a stab in the dark - are these perissodactyl astragali?  The far right one sort of strikes me as tapir-like, but then again I haven't found any TX tapir material to compare to.

Grüße,

Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas

"To the motivated go the spoils."

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Hi, Dan . . .

No, and No.  These four (two Miocene, two Pleistocene) critters are believed to be more closely related to whales than to tapirs.  And yet, they (three out of four, anyway) are common fossils.  Three different Families are represented there.

Big hints!  I've probably given the answer away.  :P

-----Harry Pristis

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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See, I told you I didn't know squat!  Hehehe.  Are the middle ones bison and camel?

Grüße,

Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas

"To the motivated go the spoils."

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Excellent, Dan!  The center two astragali, L to R, are Bison and Camel (Hemiauchenia or Paleolama). 

That makes them, all of 'em, Artiodactyls.  This is a characteristic shape.

There is more to be said about the other two just from the image, based on Dan's correct identification. 

Then there is the largest astragalus.  Think about an Artiodactyl much larger than a Bison that may be Miocene or Pleistocene.

Dan, can you use this thread to ID the astragalus with the adherent matrix which you asked about in another thread?

-----Harry Pristis

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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Honestly the bison and camel astraguli look pretty close in form to me.  Are there specific diagnostic features I should be looking for to distinguish them?

Grüße,

Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas

"To the motivated go the spoils."

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Deer is certainly a reasonable guess, Cris. Deer is an another artiodactyl, and the resemblance of a deer astragalus to the other astragali is undeniable.

The astragalus on the far right is considerably larger than a deer, as you can see from the image below that shows the bone in question with a deer astragalus.

I will post the identifications tomorrow after everyone has a chance tonight to make their IDs (that's what most bone collectors do on Saturday night, isn't it? :D ).

--------Harry Pristis

post-1-1189967382_thumb.jpg

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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Excellent, Worthy! This is another camel astragalus, this one from the Late Miocene Bone Valley phosphates in Southcentral Florida. The common camel in those deposits is the Lamine species Hemiauchenia sp.

No golden kudo this time, but it was a good group effort to identify three of the four astragali.

The fourth bone, the largest is extremely rare in Florida -- it might be considered rare anywhere. It is from the giant hog-like Entelodont, Daeodon (=Dinohyas) from the Early Miocene. The complete skeleton is known from the Agate Bone Bed in Western Nebraska.

Imagine "Hogzilla" being twelve feet long and seven feet tall at the shoulder with a skull that is thirty-five inches long! (The actual family relationship with hogs--the Suidae--is debatable, however.)

So, the ID's of the bones are:

Entelodont (Daeodon)

Bison

Camel

Camel

Here is a line-drawing of a Daeodon skull along with a pic of the jaw of an earlier (much smaller) predecessor of Daeodon, Archaeotherium, from the Badlands of SD.

------Harry Pristis

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  • I found this Informative 1

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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Anson . . .

There is an account of Daeodon in Florida, including illustrations, in THE FOSSIL VERTEBRATES OF FLORIDA, edited by Richard Hulbert.  Every vertebrate collector in the USA should own this book.  I say in the USA because Florida produces so much vertebrate material that collectors everywhere love to display.

The book is written for the educated layman collector, and it is loaded with good information that can make collecting much more enjoyable.  It treats everything from boney fish to giant flightless birds to whales.  Buy two copies: one to put back for when the first copy is worn out from use!!

----Harry Pristis

  • I found this Informative 1

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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I believe that's the critter, Worthy. Cuddly, huh!

Here is a lower canine from Daeodon hollandi. It's other teeth are equally impressive.

-----Harry Pristis

post-1-1189967657_thumb.jpg

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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