A Cretan Fossils Collection

[astron]

Another 3 elongated, as well.

[astron]

And the last for today is strange leaf........

Edited December 14, 2012 by astron

[piranha]

Hi Astrinos,

More unusual fossils to ponder from Crete. I'm at a loss to classify the elongate items. Curious to know what others have to say on those specimens. Hopefully someone will spot these for a positive ID. The last fossil you posted is simply a leaf with an unknown deposition obscuring most of it. The apex, petiole and right-side margin are clearly defined in the enlarged version of your photo.

Thanks for posting!

[Wrangellian]

Good eye Scott.. think you're right... Astrinos, maybe you can take this opportunity to try prying off the 'blob' to expose more of the leaf - this might help you to figure out what the blob is at the same time. ?

[astron]

Good eye Scott.. think you're right... Astrinos, maybe you can take this opportunity to try prying off the 'blob' to expose more of the leaf - this might help you to figure out what the blob is at the same time. ?

Thank you very much, Scott and Eric

Those elongate items are really strange... I found today some more and I'll try to prep and to add them tomorrow with as much details as possible.

Even more strange is the last specimen. Convincing your leaf indicating observations, Scott, and the truth is that the leaf aspect came to my mind but I had discarted it becouse I thought of the next 3 things:

1. The deposition is too thick and I can't see how the leaf could afford it when alive.

2. The deposition extends over the leaf area at the upper side and

3. I also excluded this deposition to had been created after leaf's fall becouse it's so much material that (supposingly) in the time it needs to be concentrated the leaf should be disolved.

Eric's suggestion for removing this deposition would give an answer, but I am afraid that a serous damage is very probable.

So I am thinking what to do with it.

[astron]

Even more strange is the last specimen. Convincing your leaf indicating observations, Scott, and the truth is that the leaf aspect came to my mind but I had discarted it becouse I thought of the next 3 things:

1. The deposition is too thick and I can't see how the leaf could afford it when alive.

2. The deposition extends over the leaf area at the upper side and

3. I also excluded this deposition to had been created after leaf's fall becouse it's so much material that (supposingly) in the time it needs to be concentrated the leaf should be disolved.

Unless if it is coprolite or fruit of some type that has deposited on the leaf after it had fallen down.

Just thinking

Edited September 25, 2011 by astron

[astron]

Hello all.

I'll present today some elongate somehow (supposingly) seeds I found yesterday in my hunting area (late miocene Crete island, Greece) in continuation with the presented last Saturday ones..

In the most cases are shown the inner structure details hopefully helphul with the ids. Any way I tried the best I could.

The bad is that my camera gave it up and this is a serious problem to me...

First are 3 items, the first of them on one pic and the others on two pics each.

Edited September 26, 2011 by astron

[astron]

This is a small slab with two fossils. The elongate one is alike with the third item on the previous post and the second is rather a small log (?).

The first pic shows the items in their originali position, the second pic removed, the third pic is close up of the ''log'' and the fourth pic shows the inner structure the elongate item.

[astron]

I haven't still finished the prep of this slab. It contains 3 fossils but what interests now is the elongate one. It's a really strange 24 cm long thing.

Here are a pic of the hole fossil and two close ups of it.

On the two high sized pics of my next post is shown the inner structure of it.

[astron]

Two pics of the inner structure of the fossil above.

[astron]

Two more items here.

Edited December 14, 2012 by astron

[astron]

And last for today is a seed like item (first pic) similar to a previously presented one (second pic) .

Edited December 14, 2012 by astron

[Wrangellian]

Even more strange is the last specimen. Convincing your leaf indicating observations, Scott, and the truth is that the leaf aspect came to my mind but I had discarted it becouse I thought of the next 3 things:

1. The deposition is too thick and I can't see how the leaf could afford it when alive.

2. The deposition extends over the leaf area at the upper side and

3. I also excluded this deposition to had been created after leaf's fall becouse it's so much material that (supposingly) in the time it needs to be concentrated the leaf should be disolved.

Unless if it is coprolite or fruit of some type that has deposited on the leaf after it had fallen down.

Just thinking

I think that's exactly it - whatever it is must have been formed after the leaf fell to the ground. If your leaf fossils are like ours in this part of the world, the plane of the leaf will be a weakness that should allow the blob to pop off quite easily with a little pressure, and if the blob is broken you can see inside it, and the composition could give a clue as to its origin, and you might get a nice leaf fossil out of it as well. But if you're reluctant to do this, I understand.

I also can't say what your elongate items are but the only 2 ideas that come to mind are 1) some sort of concretion-type formation, and 2) trace fossils/coprolites. Not too confident about the coprolite however as I would expect a copro to have some bits of detritus in them (though earthworm castings, for instance, have none). I find similar elongated 'concretions' in my local rock but I can't find an ID for them other than 'elongate concretions'. They come in all (irregular) shapes and sizes and rarely contain anything to indicate an organic origin.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Wrangellian

[astron]

I think that's exactly it - whatever it is must have been formed after the leaf fell to the ground. If your leaf fossils are like ours in this part of the world, the plane of the leaf will be a weakness that should allow the blob to pop off quite easily with a little pressure, and if the blob is broken you can see inside it, and the composition could give a clue as to its origin, and you might get a nice leaf fossil out of it as well. But if you're reluctant to do this, I understand.

I also can't say what your elongate items are but the only 2 ideas that come to mind are 1) some sort of concretion-type formation, and 2) trace fossils/coprolites. Not too confident about the coprolite however as I would expect a copro to have some bits of detritus in them (though earthworm castings, for instance, have none). I find similar elongated 'concretions' in my local rock but I can't find an ID for them other than 'elongate concretions'. They come in all (irregular) shapes and sizes and rarely contain anything to indicate an organic origin.

Hi Eric and all.

At first the pleasant fact of my camera's recovery allows me to continue...

Those concretions!!! You have opened a huge window, Eric. Those constructions are not only elongate but of every shape, as we'll see and hide mainly seeds but not only.

Even the already discussed leaf is involved. I have removed the formation on that leaf but not any trace of the leaf under it (pic1), wich is the same with all the other concretions. The inner structure of it bears a thin line in the middle (pic 2) and I am convinced that the missed part of the leaf passes through this thin line. I consider as evidence the alike concretion on the pic 4 wich contains the quercus mediterranea leaf of the pic 5.

On my next posts are some opened concretions with their content (2 pics each).

[astron]

The first two concretions with their contents.

Edited December 14, 2012 by astron

[astron]

The next three concretions with their contents.

[astron]

Two more concretions with their contents.

Edited December 14, 2012 by astron

[astron]

And before the last today's post, the last (at the moment) two concretions with their contents.

Edited September 28, 2011 by astron

[astron]

The last fossil for today is a well preserved log (Bob - bdevey - could say if it is a calcite limb cast).

On the second pic is shown the inner structure and on the third pic is a close up of it.

The amazing in this case is that the left edge of the log is covered in the same with the previous items type of concretion.

Edited September 28, 2011 by astron

[Wrangellian]

Aha! So they are concretions. Looks like they are quite productive, too, though you might not always be able to tell what exactly the contents are.. Not all of the concretions in my area have anything in them - in fact, I don't have much luck with them, but in other areas they can be quite fruitful. Too bad your first leaf there didn't split through neatly... I'm not always right with these things. You might be correct that the leaf is inside the piece that came off, but you might need an airscribe or some other tool to expose it.

[bdevey]

The last fossil for today is a well preserved log (Bob - bdevey - could say if it is a calcite limb cast).

On the second pic is shown the inner structure and on the third pic is a close up of it.

The amazing in this case is that the left edge of the log is covered in the same with the previous items type of concretion.

Hi, Astron, more great finds.

This one, Looks to me more like a Carbonized limb

Unlike the other Mystery piece

Have you tried an acid test [on the mystery piece], to see if its calcite?

I have some new carbonized wood finds, I will post soon

Bob

[astron]

Aha! So they are concretions. Looks like they are quite productive, too, though you might not always be able to tell what exactly the contents are.. Not all of the concretions in my area have anything in them - in fact, I don't have much luck with them, but in other areas they can be quite fruitful. Too bad your first leaf there didn't split through neatly... I'm not always right with these things. You might be correct that the leaf is inside the piece that came off, but you might need an airscribe or some other tool to expose it.

Hi. Eric.

I don't consider it's bad what happened with the leaf. At first we know now what it is about on one hand and on the other hand I have an example of this unusual preservation. So, I prefer it as now it is.

Actually I can't always say what the contents of the concretions are but in most cases I think it's about seeds or leaves. I'll add today some more specimens of this kind.

[astron]

Hi, Astron, more great finds.

This one, Looks to me more like a Carbonized limb

Unlike the other Mystery piece

Have you tried an acid test [on the mystery piece], to see if its calcite?

I have some new carbonized wood finds, I will post soon

Bob

Hi, Bob.

Ok, I agree with the carbonized wood aspect for the last log, while for the previous one I haven't tried a test on it but I have to do that when I find a chance

Looking forward to seeing your last finds

[astron]

Hello all.

I'ii close today the concretions thread presenting some items I have just prepped.

At first three concretions containing seeds in my opinion.

Edited December 14, 2012 by astron

[astron]

Another three concretions containing seeds in my opinion.

Edited December 14, 2012 by astron