CreekCrawler Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Ok, so a friend of mine who works for a local alarm company saw an interesting spot to look for rocks.He is mostly a rock hound , but he brought home a large piece of matrix from this area and left it out in his backyard to add to his collection of rocks.He called me and said that the matrix had weathered away and thought I might be interested in what came out. The gastropod is very white for a fossil and the phycodont was in the same piece of matrix. I have not had a chance to check out the area yet,but I am very excited as I think this is a virgin site. Maybe some of you could pin down the formation from the specimens in the pics. Thanks B Lets see how good y'all are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 The shell appears to still be original material. It doesn't appear to be filled in at the opening. I assume this is somewhere around the great DFW area? What does the matrix look like? Looks like a Ptychodus whipellii (spelling) tooth. I hope I got that ID right. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreekCrawler Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 The shell appears to still be original material. It doesn't appear to be filled in at the opening. I assume this is somewhere around the great DFW area? What does the matrix look like? Looks like a Ptychodus whipellii (spelling) tooth. I hope I got that ID right. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Hmmmm....how could the shell be original material if it came from the same piece of matrix as the Phycodos. Actually embedded next to each other as my friend says.And I don't think I've seen a modern day snail with those kind of raised bumps and all.Correct me if I'm wrong! B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kauffy Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Hmmmm....how could the shell be original material if it came from the same piece of matrix as the Phycodos. Actually embedded next to each other as my friend says.And I don't think I've seen a modern day snail with those kind of raised bumps and all.Correct me if I'm wrong!B just because a shell still has its original material doesnt mean its not a fossil! its very possible for a shell to be covered as Calcium carbonate and after the fossilisation process still be Calcium carbonate! "Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Hmmmm....how could the shell be original material if it came from the same piece of matrix as the Phycodos. Actually embedded next to each other as my friend says.And I don't think I've seen a modern day snail with those kind of raised bumps and all.Correct me if I'm wrong!B kauffy is correct. Depending on how the fossil was originally covered, whether any demineralization/remineralization process did or did not take place, it could have never actually "turned to stone" or could have been replaced with calcite or some other material. Some ammonites are found with the original nacre (can't remember the formation). The Eocene fossil shells from the Stone City site are still original material. Some of the Florida guys could probably elaborate on this better than I. Anyway, it appears that way to me from the picture. I could be wrong (as I am still learning the finer details). I could tell better if it were in my hands. It is a very nice specimen, whatever it turns out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceH Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I think the shell is modern from something decorative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Two things trouble me about the shell: 1) It has a natural-in-life color pattern. 2) It has no matrix in it. I'd want to see the hole in the matrix with my own eyes. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 That tooth looks like it wasnt in matrix. Looks to be weathered. I have some that look just like that, and they were all laying on the surface. I havent found a shell like that near a Ptychodus, but thats not to say it couldnt happen. What city was it found in? Id say formation maybe kamp ranch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Ptychodus whipplei from the Kamp Ranch or Arcadia Park of Dallas accompanied by a modern beach shell. Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Ptychodus whipplei from the Kamp Ranch or Arcadia Park of Dallas accompanied by a modern beach shell. Sounds about right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 ...he brought home a large piece of matrix from this area and left it out in his backyard to add to his collection of rocks. He called me and said that the matrix had weathered away.... The Ptychodus whipplei from matrix is no surprise, as others have pointed out. However, the backyard of a rock collector...now there's your source for a modern shell. For a more complete stratigraphy of a rockhound's backyard...I'm not guilty. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreekCrawler Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 I'm not going to argue with you guys, but the two items came from the same piece of matrix! Extreme eastern edge of Denton county Tx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kauffy Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 hmm i could speculate....although i really do not know about the surrounding areas in which these came from. Lets say the tooth weathered out of the martix and was sitting in dust around an outcrop of rocks, im not too sure how a modern shell could come to be in the same area but lets speculate and say its fell off the bottom of a seaplane.... but... if there were to be a storm, the dirt gets wet and both the shell and tooth get washed into the mud, the mud then drys and becomes hard, leaving both the tooth and modern shell in the same piece of 'matrix'.... sounds a tad farfetched, but i know plenty of clays/dirts that when dry are rock hard, but when wet can be washed away. What sort of matrix did they come out of? "Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Two things trouble me about the shell:1) It has a natural-in-life color pattern. 2) It has no matrix in it. I'd want to see the hole in the matrix with my own eyes. Whilst I agree the above specimen looks modern, Natural-in-life colour patterns are not unknown, here's a 2mm, Banded pea shell, Theodoxus pisiformis approx 54mya, from Abbey wood, London. KOF, Bill. Welcome to the forum, all new members www.ukfossils check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOROPUS Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 The shell looks to me as a member of the (big) Cerithium family member.Could it be a Pleistocene shell? I have seen that conservation sometimes.Could the Cretaceous teeth roll about in the ace age and be deposited near the shell? That would explain the two findings in same matrix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreekCrawler Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 What sort of matrix did they come out of? I can tell you that he had this piece of matrix in a shallow galvanized tub with some other crinoid hash pieces from some Pennsylvanian strata. He is also a Plumeria plant nut. He sprays water from the hose onto the Plumerias every day and the matrix washed away almost like sand.The tub was getting wet every day because it was under the plants and that's when he called me to tell me about the two specimens that came out. I'll call him and see if there is any of the original matrix left to photograph.If not, I'll go to this spot and see what I can come up with. thanks for all your replys B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Very friable, water soluable, inclusions with different states of preservation...I wonder whether the matrix might be a rework? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Murphy Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 snakekeeper64: I agree with Dan Woehr, Kaufy and others on the nature of the gastropod and the tooth. The tooth is Ptychodus whipplei from the Eagle Ford Group (Upper Cretaceous), probably derived from the Kamp Ranch limestone. The gastropod is a member of the family Cerithiidae, which are exclusively marine and most common in the Neogene and Recent. Even if it were a Pleistocene fossil cerith, it would not be found in Denton County as any Pleistocene gastropod would be a freshwater form. The preservation of the shell and the absence of matrix within the shell indicate that the shell has been transported into the location and probably became entrained in a recent re-work of Eagle Ford strata, probably a chunk of dried mud. This interment in the re-worked material could give the appearance that the snail was part of the formation. I have found fresh water snails in re-worked Ordovican shales in Oklahoma and in re-worked Del Rio shales in the Waco pit. It was undoubtedly brought in by human means. It should not be native to the Eagle Ford rocks, however. Regards, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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