Sharkbyte Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Recently, I have seen a few postings on the Forum about fossil bones or teeth in matrix from Morocco that are being passed off as authentic as found in matrix when several are fabricated or falsified to make a sell and now it has me wondering. I pretty much know that I would avoid any thing that seems to awesome to be true but I was wondering about the common Otodus Shark Teeth and various other teeth in matrix from this area. Mosasaur teeth and various teeth with vertebra fossilized together or slabs with multiple shark teeth look fake more often than not but I would be speculating and maybe unjustly. The single Otodus teeth look pretty authentic but I wonder just how easy it is to make and pass off a fake tooth in matrix because I am interested in collecting some specimens and don't want to buy them if they are fakes. Any advice for collecting authentic teeth in matrix from Morocco? I can't imagine it would be proffitable to go to the trouble to make a fake matrix speciman for the sale of a single tooth. "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 A glued-up "matrix" can obscure major repairs (including compositing of partials) and thus be worth the time to do. Look real hard at the central root area of your pictured example. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkbyte Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Thanks Auspex, Using a magnifying glass to look closely at an enlarged picture of this tooth makes it look like a cement or mortar filler was used at or around each cusp but I can't say for sure. When I see these teeth for sale, some of them look so fabricated and some of them look so natural but without holding it in your hand to see in person, it is very hard to tell. While, I would want perfect examples, I would have less of a problem with repairing a tooth in matrix than I would with placing a tooth in fake matrix and calling it original. I don't know if these teeth are commonly found in this type rock or if most of them are found and assembled in this way. A glued-up "matrix" can obscure major repairs (including compositing of partials) and thus be worth the time to do. Look real hard at the central root area of your pictured example. "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desert rat Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I've been attending the Tucson Show since the 1980's and Denver almost as long. I'm in the business of selling authentic fossils, and I and my partner have been scammed by the best (and worst) of the Moroccan dealers over the years. Taking a realistic view of the offerings coming out of Morocco, don't believe anything without verification by someone who has been thru the mill. The trilobite fakes are now magnificent and regularly fool museum conservators. Groupings of teeth or trilobites are almost certainly fakes. A walk down the tables sometimes reveals multiple examples of exactly the SAME trilobites in exactly the SAME position! These Moroccans really have no respect for their customers. I have some Mosasaur teeth in matrix that are certainly fake. I work the matrix with a Paleotool and can detect if the substance is the real phosphate rock or cemented mud. Individual Mosasaur teeth are going to be real as they are very common and picked up by the miners in the dozens. Unfortunately they are generally mis-identified as to genus and species. I started with Aramborg's 1952 study of the fossils from the Moroccan phosphate basins and have continued looking for new manuscripts to this day. AND am still not 100% confident of the identity of all the trays of teeth I have in the cabinets. The low value specimens such as the Goniatites, Orthoceras and smaller shark teeth are most likely real as they are common and there is too little profit in them to support a manufacturing facility. Caveat emptor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollynotsowell Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Hi Bobby, after my recent posts on the subject of Moroccan fossils I was told by jnoun11 that there is an easy way to tell if the matrix is real: if you can see any red or orange highlights on the surface of the matrix than this indicates that it is real as this is very hard to fake. Hope this helps! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkbyte Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Thank you very much. I want to collect some nice Otodus from Morocco in "Natural Matrix" in as found condition but I'm just not sure how easy that is going to be. I will consider your advice when looking at teeth from Morocco. I'm curious though what relevance the Red and Orange has to the matrix? Bobby Hi Bobby, after my recent posts on the subject of Moroccan fossils I was told by jnoun11 that there is an easy way to tell if the matrix is real: if you can see any red or orange highlights on the surface of the matrix than this indicates that it is real as this is very hard to fake. Hope this helps! Edited September 28, 2011 by Sharkbyte "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkbyte Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 Thanks for your input. As much as I love the look of the teeth in matrix from there, I might be safer considering the teeth out of the matrix. I've been attending the Tucson Show since the 1980's and Denver almost as long. I'm in the business of selling authentic fossils, and I and my partner have been scammed by the best (and worst) of the Moroccan dealers over the years. Taking a realistic view of the offerings coming out of Morocco, don't believe anything without verification by someone who has been thru the mill. The trilobite fakes are now magnificent and regularly fool museum conservators. Groupings of teeth or trilobites are almost certainly fakes. A walk down the tables sometimes reveals multiple examples of exactly the SAME trilobites in exactly the SAME position! These Moroccans really have no respect for their customers. I have some Mosasaur teeth in matrix that are certainly fake. I work the matrix with a Paleotool and can detect if the substance is the real phosphate rock or cemented mud. Individual Mosasaur teeth are going to be real as they are very common and picked up by the miners in the dozens. Unfortunately they are generally mis-identified as to genus and species. I started with Aramborg's 1952 study of the fossils from the Moroccan phosphate basins and have continued looking for new manuscripts to this day. AND am still not 100% confident of the identity of all the trays of teeth I have in the cabinets. The low value specimens such as the Goniatites, Orthoceras and smaller shark teeth are most likely real as they are common and there is too little profit in them to support a manufacturing facility. Caveat emptor. "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeloiVarden Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Hey Buddy, Follow the link to some genuine otodus in matrix. Mark lives near me and I have personally been in his shop and seen the huge pieces of matrix which he works on to get these teeth out of. http://www.lowcountrygeologic.com/FossilSharkTeeth/Otodusobliquus/tabid/53/Filter/187n204/Default.aspx Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkbyte Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 That is a great site Jason. He has some awesome teeth and I consider your recomendation highly. I appreciate it. Bobby Hey Buddy, Follow the link to some genuine otodus in matrix. Mark lives near me and I have personally been in his shop and seen the huge pieces of matrix which he works on to get these teeth out of. http://www.lowcountr...04/Default.aspx Jason "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alopias Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 hi Bobby , This is Otodus in matrix , no fake if you seen , your Otodus are some repairing on the cups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkbyte Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 Hello alopias, That is a very nice tooth. I liike the ones in matrix. I think it makes a great display. Bobby hi Bobby , This is Otodus in matrix , no fake if you seen , your Otodus are some repairing on the cups "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) When buying teeth out of matrix, always look at the roots, I have a couple here in this picture I bought which turned out to be fabricated a bit. EDIT: You should not be able to scratch away the root, if you can, it is a fake. Edited October 1, 2011 by Odinofthenorth 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 A real one of mine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkbyte Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 Hello Odinofthenorth, Thank you for replying with marked up informative and clear pictures. I appreciate it. Bobby "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhk Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Shine a black light on the fossil, if there is glue, it will shine back white or yellow. That is an easy way to tell. That being said, I do not trust any fossils out of Morocco... ever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Hello Odinofthenorth, Thank you for replying with marked up informative and clear pictures. I appreciate it. Bobby It's OK! Glad I could help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkbyte Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hello and thank you for the tip. I'll try that on the few that I have but it would only help after buying teeth from there and trceiving them. I'll just have to try to be extra carefull and use reputable sellers if possible. Shine a black light on the fossil, if there is glue, it will shine back white or yellow. That is an easy way to tell. That being said, I do not trust any fossils out of Morocco... ever. "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Yes, Mark is a good guy and a very knowledgeable dealer. I've known him for over 20 years. You can trust him and his material. Hey Buddy, Follow the link to some genuine otodus in matrix. Mark lives near me and I have personally been in his shop and seen the huge pieces of matrix which he works on to get these teeth out of. http://www.lowcountrygeologic.com/FossilSharkTeeth/Otodusobliquus/tabid/53/Filter/187n204/Default.aspx Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkbyte Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hello, Thank you very much for the reputation recomendation. He has now been recomended by two people who's judgement I feel I can depend on. Appreciate the help. Bobby Yes, Mark is a good guy and a very knowledgeable dealer. I've known him for over 20 years. You can trust him and his material. "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Shine a black light on the fossil, if there is glue, it will shine back white or yellow. That is an easy way to tell. That being said, I do not trust any fossils out of Morocco... ever. Not an exact indicator. The teeth I get here on the west coast glow bright yellow under UV light straight out of the ground, no glue or repairs by Mother Nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts