Kosmoceras Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Hi all, I recently got hold of a number of north sea mammal bones. They need a light coat of varnish though. I have got some good matt varnish to do the job, but how is the best way to put it on. Have the bones standing, or do one side of the bones at a time. This is the fist time I have done this, so I need some help. Thanks! Thomas. Edited November 7, 2011 by Odinofthenorth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Hi Thomas, Welcome back from another exciting fossil adventure. I would suggest posting a few photos of the bones for the best possible feedback. The remedies for conserving and preserving are variable and seeing the condition will best convey a consensus course of action for your particular items. Besides all that, I'd really like to see all your new treasures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Hi Thomas, Welcome back from another exciting fossil adventure. I would suggest posting a few photos of the bones for the best possible feedback. The remedies for conserving and preserving are variable and seeing the condition will best convey a consensus course of action for your particular items. Besides all that, I'd really like to see all your new treasures! OK, I will get some pics as soon as possible. I got about 50 new fossils in the last week, from all over the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 OK, I will get some pics as soon as possible. I got about 50 new fossils in the last week, from all over the world. :eat popcorn: :Bananasaur: :pic: :Bananasaur: :eat popcorn: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 North Sea fossils tend to need special preservation; some are not well mineralized, and all are full of salt. Check with tracer on this one! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 A friend from the UK said he used matt varnish for his north sea fossils, and it worked with him. It is just how to put the varnish on I am stuck on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 :eat popcorn: :Bananasaur: :pic: :Bananasaur: :eat popcorn: OK, I will let you all in on one of them. Echinoid spines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 A friend from the UK said he used matt varnish for his north sea fossils, and it worked with him. It is just how to put the varnish on I am stuck on. As Chas pointed out the North Sea fossils require special attention for a variety of reasons. Skipping an important step could prove injurious months or years later. Simply applying varnish may just protect the outer surface and could lock in a potentially deteriorating condition down the road. I'd recommend waiting for a few of the experts on this material to respond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 OK, will do. This person although sells the fossils, I have bought some before, and they seem to be doing good so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Hello Thomas, Do you know whether the sea salt has been removed from the bones? If not soak for a couple of weeks in tap water, change the water regularly. Let the bones dry slowly. The salt can cause the bones to crack. I know that some people use varnish, but not everyone recommends this because of what piranha says. Most people and some musea soak the bones in wood glue diluted in water (check http://www.fossiel.net/informatie/prepareren.php). I use an aceton / osteofix solution (which is comparable to Butvar I believe). Cracks should be filled with glue. Do not display the fossils in sunlight! In fact, everyone does something different. Curious what other people here do. Best regards, Niels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 ok, here's the deal about salt. salt is hygroscopic. it attracts moisture whenever there is moisture. salt dissolves in water. water evaporates. salt crystallizes when it comes out of solution. crystals are hard and have pointy ends and sharp edges. imagine this happening over and over inside little pores in a fairly rigid but not super strong lattice of hydroxylapatite. salt causes cortical bone to crack and have surface delaminations. the container with the bones in it will seem over time to get "dusty". it's a bad thing. patience is a virtue with getting salt out of fossils. i try to keep doing water changes and soaking the salt out for a fairly long time. much longer that some might think necessary but i consider salt to be a stealthy enemy. wet fossils can crack and fall apart from shrinkage when they are dried. i try to dry them slowly, and sometimes use ethanol and then acetone during the dehydration process to support the cell structure. although i occasionally use cyanoacrylate glue on cracks, the only consolidants i normally use on dry fossils are polyvinyl butyral or polyvinyl acetate dissolved in acetone. pvb has a higher glass transition temperature so it doesn't tend to feel tacky, but pva seems to be more forgiving of a tiny bit of residual moisture and not "fog" as easily. but i don't feel bad about either one being on my fossils. i use a thin solution and try to get it soaked in as deeply as possible, knowing that if that doesn't happen, then the fossil can deteriorate internally. what's in "varnish"? or "wood glue"? yeah, see that's the problem. one of the major concepts is that it's all about the chemistry, and some stuff does bad things over time. if you end up putting something on a fossil that years down the road is cross-linked molecularly to the fossil and also shrinking, then the fossil's going to start coming apart and you can't remove the consolidant and redo it. that's why i just stick with polymers that are a pure product and that have a reputation for having properties suitable for use on fossils. but that's just me. anyway, if you search online for "nautarch" you'll find cool info on conserving fossils from marine environments. read up on any chemicals you use and make your own decisions, but be very aware of safety issues. acetone can definitely be an issue if you like to work on your fossils while sitting around a campfire. the only time i use pva in an aqueous emulsion is when i have a wet fossil that's obviously too fragile to survive drying. then i dump in about a fifty-percent glue-to-water ratio and cover the sucker up and let it soak, hoping that the pva molecules are small enough to get down in there eventually and save the fossil for posterity. to me, "posterity" means until tj gets his own residence, whereupon a couple of loaded-down runs to his place will solve a lot of my worldly possession issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 Pictures! I believe they were soaked in water. He told me all they needed was a light coat of varnish. Thanks for the help everyone. The stuff coming off is not the bones cracking up, it is dirt I cam cleaning off them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sward Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Pictures! I believe they were soaked in water. He told me all they needed was a light coat of varnish. Thanks for the help everyone. The stuff coming off is not the bones cracking up, it is dirt I cam cleaning off them. From reading this thread, I would have assumed that if they had been soaked in water long enough to remove any residual salt, you wouldn't have to be removing dirt from them. Should you consider soaking in water a few more times as mentioned several times throughout this thread? SWardSoutheast Missouri (formerly Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX) USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 From reading this thread, I would have assumed that if they had been soaked in water long enough to remove any residual salt, you wouldn't have to be removing dirt from them. Should you consider soaking in water a few more times as mentioned several times throughout this thread? Well, I did not find them. I bought them. The man said they just needed a quick varnish, and then they will be fine. This dirt is some of the stuff that was inside the bones, they need a good amount of brushing to get off. Another soaking would still not get the dirt off. I have emailed a few friends also about this material, and I know what I am doing now. Thanks for the help everyone. I will post pictures of the finished results when they are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members TBryshun Posted August 12, 2018 New Members Share Posted August 12, 2018 Hi Kosmoceras, I realize it's been quite a few year since this post but do you know what this bone is from in your pictures you posted here? Thanks, TBryshun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 33 minutes ago, TBryshun said: Hi Kosmoceras, I realize it's been quite a few year since this post but do you know what this bone is from in your pictures you posted here? Thanks, TBryshun @Kosmoceras has not been on site for a year, so You may not get an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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