Minimum Mammoth Tooth Size

[Shellseeker]

Here are a set of photos... This SEEMS to be a mammoth tooth, and since many of the "sides" are complete, it may be just missing the root area. The fossil is 25mmX25mmX15mm.

So , a couple of questions:

1) Is the occlusal area basically 98% complete?

2) The occusal surface looks used. Is this tooth erupted?

3) What is the likely total size of the tooth and size of the animal that had this tooth?

Thanks -- SS

EDITED to add 6th photo..

Edited December 24, 2011 by Shellseeker

[MikeDOTB]

Hmmmm, I dont think its a mammoth tooth. Looks lke a worn other kind of tooth to me. I mean, not completely worn, just worn in certain places. But Im interested as to what others think it is. My mammal kung fu isnt that good.

[Harry Pristis]

Your tooth appears to be the smallest mammoth milk tooth in the jaw. It is certainly erupted with some wear. Nice find!

Here's a couple, unerupted and erupted, to compare. I think your tooth is at a stage of wear somewhere between these two.

[Shellseeker]

Thanks Harry,

I realized that you would know if it could be anything else. I was surprised by the size, originally thinking that it was a mammoth tooth fragment, but I had never seen a fragment like this one.

I certainly hoped that it might be a baby tooth, but the wear threw me off. I recognize the rarity and it will certainly get its own Riker and a special place in my collection.. SS

[MikeDOTB]

Wow, congrats. I didnt know mammoth teeth, even milk teeth were that small. Congrats shellseeker! Thats a great find!

MikeDOTB

[ghost1066]

Very cool tooth. You guy kill me finding all the good stuff. :greenwnvy:

Hmmmm, I dont think its a mammoth tooth. Looks lke a worn other kind of tooth to me. I mean, not completely worn, just worn in certain places. But Im interested as to what others think it is. My mammal kung fu isnt that good.

Nice use of the term kung fu. Most would not have used it there and correctly. Good job.

[Lloyd]

Nice find. I'm still waiting for my first mammoth tooth.

[Shellseeker]

Very cool tooth. You guy kill me finding all the good stuff.

Nice find. I'm still waiting for my first mammoth tooth.

This is also my first complete mammoth tooth, although I once found a 2 segment fragment of an adult mammoth tooth in a construction pit. It is pretty rare to find a complete mammoth (or mastodon) tooth in the Peace River. I have seen a fossil buddy pull out an adult tooth, and then this one --- a total of 2 in almost 3 years... I know lots more have been found that I did not hear about -- but mammoth teeth of any type are rare...

You must be lucky --- and of late, I have been

[Boneman007]

Wow...

I have a Mammoth tooth that is 25mm wide by 70mm in length (top or the tooth). I thought that tooth was VERY small. Interestingly, the tooth was found in a Cretaceous/Pliestocene reworked zone and it appears to may not have been fossilized. The roots are the same color and sotness as a cow tooth.

No pics handy, sorry!

[Harry Pristis]

I've already posted an image in this thread of the smaller of these two teeth. These were recovered from a deep crevice on the bottom of the Santa Fe many years ago. They may be from one little mammoth, though the fit between the two teeth is not perfect.

The larger tooth is 39.3mm at its widest part.

You can tell there was another tooth in the jaw in contact with the larger tooth because of the slight distortion on its end (not well illustrated in this image).

[Shellseeker]

Re-opening this thread --- ANOTHER minimum sized Mammoth tooth!!! A friend found this one and questioned whether it was a mammoth tooth, and if mammoth, whether it is a milk tooth. This one looks unerupted, because there is zero wear on the chewing surface, or at least what I believe to be the chewing surface (photo #3).

In searching the internet, the ONLY photo that seems close is on found by TJ and posted by Tracer in this link ---

http://www.thefossil...-part-question/

Maybe 3 specimens will help to conjecture why this variation seems so different from photos identified as Mammoth Milk Tooth in other websites.

[PrehistoricFlorida]

Shellseeker, yes, the second tooth is indeed another mammoth milk tooth. However, it is important to note that neither tooth is complete. Both appear to be missing 1-2 plates.

[Shellseeker]

I and a fossil buddy keep on finding more of these and the new ones are smaller still. One erupted and one not.

The more I find the more questions. Here is a TFF link where Worthy55 showns a mammoth milk tooth with 5 "plates". In the center of his photos note the clear demarcation between plate # 2 and #3; Likely that is where these milk teeth are breaking off.

I am still looking for a complete one.

[fossilized6s]

Mammoths go through many sets of teeth in a lifetime.

These are a great find SS!!! Im jealous....

[RichW9090]

No, mammoths have 6 teeth in each quadrant of the jaw: I, II, III, IV, V, VI on each side of the lower jaw, and I, II, III, IV, V, VI on each side of the upper jaw - for a total of 24 teeth (26 if you count the two incisors, or tusks). You will see on various claims that they have 6 "sets" of teeth, but this is because (in adults) there is only one fully functional tooth in each jaw at a a time. As the teeth grow and wear down, they are pushed forward by the incoming tooth behind them, until the very worn down remnant, really little more than the roots, is pushed out of the jaw. The teeth lost in this fashion are called "spits".

There is some argument about whether the anterior-most three teeth are premolars, or are milk molars - but those terms just don't apply in the case of the mammoth and modern elephants.

[Shellseeker]

Rich,

I like the fact that you re-opened this one.. Here is another recent thread.

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/44970-baby-mammoth-tooth-makes-for-a-great-day/?hl=mammoth

This Mammoth tooth has complete roots and has been USED -- does not seem to be a spit tooth..

Are you saying that baby to adult mammoths only have 24 teeth through out life?? No such thing as milk teeth -- I must be reading your post incorrectly...

[fossilized6s]

Here's the full explanation. I think Rich has it right with 6 sets of teeth. But the wear on your teeth don't look "worn out" to me. Maybe your teeth are from a Mammoth baby that passed, and weren't "spit" teeth.

http://www.mammothsite.com/mammoth_info.html

[Shellseeker]

Thanks -- it is an interesting and informative link.

By the age of six, mammoths had acquired their first three sets of teeth. The fourth set of molars arrived by the age thirteen, the fifth set by age twenty-seven and the last set of molars came in when the mammoth was approximately forty-three years old.

So a Mammoth has 6 sets of 4 teeth, and the 1st set of teeth must be very small to match a baby mammoth. A very small mammoth tooth that is un_erupted might imply still birth. Speculation that the tooth Miatria found (link above) because it still retains its root and has wear on the occusal surface, may have been killed/died in the 1st year of life, Pushing a tooth out (spit tooth) potentially would damage the roots.

[fossilized6s]

Yes, i believe you are correct. And the last set of molars wear down to literally the roots until the Mammoth dies of starvation. I just saw a really interesting example of one in the Kenosha County Museum a few weeks ago.

[Harry Pristis]

Here are a couple of 'spit' teeth that I came across while re-organizing my accumulation of stuff.

These are probably not the earliest teeth, but they are not adult teeth. Both are complete in length. That is, both have the "push" facet from the successor tooth, and both have front edges which thin (to a knife-edge with the smaller example).

Mammoth replacement teeth rotated into position from behind (not beneath). The functioning tooth continued to slowly rotate in the jaw, being pushed from behind by its replacement as it wore. Finally, a combination of osteoclasts (cells that break down the root) and pressure from behind loosened the tooth to the point where it was "spit" out by the mammoth.

Spit teeth from elephants (sensu lato) are characterized by eroded roots and extreme wear to the enamel plates or cusps. They are just worn out.

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/gallery/image/502-mammoth-spit-tooth/

In this TFF album entry, there is an intact example on which you can see the dished-out rear of the tooth where it was in contact with its replacement - a "push" facet. There is not much left of the original roots. You can see evidence of the rotation of the album-tooth in the jaw in its rounded grinding surface.

[Shellseeker]

These are probably not the earliest teeth, but they are not adult teeth. Both are complete in length. That is, both have the "push" facet from the successor tooth, and both have front edges which thin (to a knife-edge with the smaller example).

Harry

Here are a couple of spit teeth -- the 2nd pretty odd because it is not scraped smooth. Size of the 1st -- 70mm crown length 80mm crown diagonal, 28mm width. Is this one "complete in length" ? and would it represent an adult?

The Odd one -- why not smooth? Not a Spit tooth?

[Harry Pristis]

The hardness differential between enamel, dentin, and cementum will always remain, as long as there is part of the tooth left. They wear at different rates.

I can't see enough of these teeth to say much about them. The second tooth, the one 'not smooth,' does seem to be likely. I think of 'em as being from 'sub-adult' mammoths.

[RichW9090]

Part of the confusion comes from using the word "set" to describe teeth. I normal mammals, there are two "sets" of teeth - deciduous and permanent. In elephants, each "set" consists of one of the tooth series from each quadrant - that is, the 6th "set" is the right upper tooth VI, the left upper tooth VI, the right lower tooth VI and the left lower tooth VI - all of which, more or less, are in the jaw and functional at the same time.

Rich

[Amarykah]

On 12/23/2011 at 9:23 PM, Harry Pristis said:

Your tooth appears to be the smallest mammoth milk tooth in the jaw. It is certainly erupted with some wear. Nice find!

Here's a couple, unerupted and erupted, to compare. I think your tooth is at a stage of wear somewhere between these two.

 

 

 

 

If you have this unerupted mammoth milk tooth in your possession (or any unerupted one that resembles this one on the left), would you be able to post pictures of it from different angles? I found something that looks similar and matches 17mm size but I’m very skeptical… I really want to find one of these teeth, though, and am having trouble finding images of unerupted ones that look like this  so what I have is probably not that…but there’s a chance! 

[Harry Pristis]

Perhaps it would be best if you posted images of your 17mm find so that others may contribute opinions.