bones brigade Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Hello all. These bones were found in the 'Badlands' area of Alberta, Canada and we were wondering if anyone could Identify them? I've been leaning in the direction of astragalus (ankle bone)? What does everyone think? Thanks in advance for all the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones brigade Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 alternate angle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones brigade Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones brigade Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 opposite side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones brigade Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 ankle bone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones brigade Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 another angle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones brigade Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Sorry if I added too many pictures in seperate posts. Hope these are clear enough. I have many more if anyone would like to see different angles etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgrilusHunter Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Sorry if I added too many pictures in seperate posts. Hope these are clear enough. I have many more if anyone would like to see different angles etc. No worries! We're all here for the pictures any way. Sorry I can't help with your bone, with these nice pictures though I'm shure you'll get an id pretty fast. Also, welcome to the forum! Edited September 13, 2012 by AgrilusHunter "They ... savoured the strange warm glow of being much more ignorant than ordinary people, who were only ignorant of ordinary things." -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones brigade Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 No worries! We're all here for the pictures any way. Sorry I can't help with your bone, with these nice pictures though I'm shure you'll get an id pretty fast. Aslo, welcome to the forum! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The largest bone is, I think, a calcaneum; compare it to cow or bison. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones brigade Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 The largest bone is, I think, a calcaneum; compare it to cow or bison. Do you think the size is right for it to be a Bison of today or are we looking at something a little older? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 i agree with calcaneum and astragalus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrow Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Yep, calcaneum and astragalus ... too small for a Bison and too large for white tail deer but it looks like the calcaneum tuber has not yet fused so perhaps a juivinile? Darrow http://lamar.colostate.edu/~lctodd/tarsals.htm http://www.uwyo.edu/reallearning/bisonmedia/calcaneus.mov http://www.uwyo.edu/reallearning/bisonmedia/astragalus%28r%29.mov http://www.bonesanddirtrule.com/publications/Hill%20et%20al.%202008%20QSR.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Bovid, probably cow. See these for comparison: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php/gallery/image/9-artiodactyl-calcanea-b/ http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones brigade Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) So the next question then becomes; How old is it? The bones were found in a layer of a hoodoo quite far from the surface. Are we looking at ice age animals here or bones from the cows/bison of today? Also thank for the links and info! Edited September 13, 2012 by bones brigade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 These bones appear to be fairly recent. Have you tried the scorch test on them? Cows are a fairly recent introduction to North America. If the bones are older than a few hundred years, there are other bovids, like the musk ox, which could be the source. You'll probably need a comparative collection for an ID to musk ox. --------------------------------------------- Collagen is a fiberous protein that serves as connective tissue in bones and muscles. It does not preserve well in a fossil. As collagen decomposes, it may be replaced in the hydroxyapatite latticework by minerals from the depositional environment (e.g. silica dioxide dissolved in groundwater). Bone reinforced with exogenous minerals is said to be "mineralized." A 'burn test' or 'match test' will usually indicate whether there is collagen remaining in a bone -- scorched collagen has an awful smell. Teeth - dentin and enamel - contain hydroxyapatite, but don't contain collagen, so the 'burn test' on a tooth would be a waste of time. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones brigade Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) So I did the 'burn test' and the picture pretty much shows what happened. The smell was pretty bad! So based on the burn test and the smell can you put a relative age to the bones? Just an odd place that we found them semi buried (protruding from the earth) 30ft or so below surface we thought they were probably pretty old. Edited September 14, 2012 by bones brigade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 you dug a 30 foot hole? or they were found 30 ft below the top of a river bank? if a river bank find, they may have simply been lodged in the side of the bank when the water was higher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones brigade Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) Not a river bank. A hoodoo or shelf type area in the Badlands of Alberta. You can see all the layers of earth as in the picture. You basically drop below and are able to view all the layers of the earth without ever having to dig! Quite the experience and an amazing place. Think Grand Canyon but without the river running through. Edited September 14, 2012 by bones brigade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 The test indicates that it is not permineralized, which can only suggest that it is of comparatively recent origin. If all other evidence (age range of the taxon, in this case) is in conflict with the age of the stratum from which it was collected, then it needs be considered that it may have been 'reworked' into the older deposit, perhaps by an old stream channel. What other material is in that layer? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opisthotriton Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Just because it was on the side of some badlands outcrop does not mean it actually came out of the outcrop. Recent cow bones will very often get covered with loose sand or mud that is eroding out of the Cretaceous rock, and then the sand/mud dries out and can seem hard, although it is still quite soft and easy to dig compared to the original mudstone or sandstone. Generally you'll see this on flat areas very close to the base of a steeper outcrop, or in the small channels that form along the surface of the outcrop. These channels carry down any fossil or modern bones they encounter, jumble them together, and partially bury them in reworked sand/mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones brigade Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 This is what it looked like when it was found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opisthotriton Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Thanks for the photo! See how the sediment on top of the bones is a lighter grey, and doesn't have the same cracked texture as the original mudstone around it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones brigade Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 I see your point on how bones could be washed from a flat area into a channel but I really dont see how that could have happened in my situation because there was no flat top for this to be washed from. The area was basically a large hoodo in Drumheller. I think the loose sediment was caused from my daughter and I sliding down the side of the hoodoo. The bones also did not come out of the earth easily. They were solidly embedded into the cracked mudstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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