Govinn Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Hello All. I've spent that last four years pulling out my hair when it comes to classifying the different species of shark teeth that I find. It's probably been covered before, but I was wondering why the same tooth will have a certain scientific name in the USA and a different name in another country? I'm sure it's a simple answer like they (another country) doesn't recognize our (USA) name so they classify the fossil how they want to, or something like that... Just curious... Please educate me. Thanks, John History will be kind to me for I intend to write it. ~Sir Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Several species have two names because they were named around the same time by two places, but the fossil is the same species. It is known as a sin in nim and they can be quite confusing at times. Means there is no correct way to call it, you can say both but usually one is more popular than the other. Many were done in Victorian times when contacts between places were limited. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erose Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I write labels in pencil and include the ID reference so I can always revise or re-visit my initial thinking. Changing names are the game! Luckily it is usually just the genus or family being revised with species names often remaining intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 'Official' scientific names are controlled by the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature and are generally accepted world-wide. As mentioned above, there are many cases where a single organism is classified by different researchers who give it different names. Eventually this confusion gets resolved and the name (or names) that loses out is relegated to synonymy. However, older books/papers/references do not reflect the change so you often find references to the 'invalid' name still in print. -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 There are very specific rules for determining which name wins out. Priority by date, or priority by page, are the two most common. However, there are all sorts of exceptions. The Commission puts out a book which contains all the rules and exceptions, which is updated every few years. It is fascinating reading. Really. Rich The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 ...It is fascinating reading. Really. Fascinating in so much as what extremes those driven to bring order to chaos are compelled to undertake in their quest for perfection (which, ironically, is made absolutely impossible by the implementation of their rules). It is a process that (I hope) will never end. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramo Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 "sin in nim", Is that actually a phrase, or is that actually where the word "synonym" comes from? Carl Linnaeus look what you started now! Ramo For one species to mourn the death of another is a new thing under the sun. -Aldo Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I have been told that is the phrase, but I could well be wrong - please correct me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 The word is synonym. Of course, we make it much more difficult by adding to it: Junior subjective synonym Junior objective synonym Senior subjective synonym Senior objective synonym and other equally wretched phrases. Rich The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govinn Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) WOW! Thank you guys so much!!! Your replies have been very helpful. One of the reasons I asked this question is because when I first started fossil hunting it was a goal of mine to collect a sample from every species in the world. Does a list like this exist? If so, has anyone ever completed it? It's a HUGE task, but I still have plenty of time (I hope). Edited March 13, 2013 by Govinn History will be kind to me for I intend to write it. ~Sir Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THobern Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 ...Means there is no correct way to call it... Unless you want the thankless task of sifting through publications to see which has priority and which are junior synonyms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Govinn, With sharks what has often happened is that someone found an anterior tooth and described it. Later, someone else found a lateral tooth of the same species and described it. Sometimes, a tooth was poorly described or described sufficiently but the locality was not provided in detail in the description, as in a state county was given but not the precise site. A tooth of the same species but given a different name and with the locality provided might end up being the one valid name even if it was named years after the other two names because it was best supported name according to the rules of the ICZN. Some researchers have also not done their homework to make sure the tooth form being studied was not already named. Sometimes, it was understandable when foreign journals became less accessible (world wars, the Cold War). Hello All. I've spent that last four years pulling out my hair when it comes to classifying the different species of shark teeth that I find. It's probably been covered before, but I was wondering why the same tooth will have a certain scientific name in the USA and a different name in another country? I'm sure it's a simple answer like they (another country) doesn't recognize our (USA) name so they classify the fossil how they want to, or something like that... Just curious... Please educate me. Thanks, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Every species in the world!! Of shark tooth or of fossil in general? Option B would be impossible. Option A might be tough. Here's another Q for you shark people... how many shark species exist as only the holotype? That's to say where the holotype is the only known specimen. I know that in mammals and even dinosaurs this happens fairly often, but shark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Govinn, Like you, I have also tried to collect species while also collecting jaw positions of common species while also collecting faunas over time (and all while not being wealthy). New genera and species continue to be named so the "list" is evergrowing and also provisional. A name could change (or even drop from official usage) and you need to stay on top of the changes. Sometimes, the new name remains debatable and the one after that. It's not like baseball cards, filling in the checklist of 1971 Topps and you're done. You can keep track of old names by consulting the synonymy (the list of junior synonyms of a valid species) for each species, and of course, you have to try to make sure your specimens are correctly identified with an effort made to have specimens with good locality data. I knew a collector who showed me the list of species in his collection and some of the names were junior synonyms of other names. Hey, my collection list probably has duplicates (or just the old name) because it's been a while since I've updated it. You don't want to be the guy just chasing names. The challenge is to learn about as many taxa as you can and know the tooth form you don't have from the ones you already have. You may find yourself at least as interested in finding publications as the specimens and you may learn that a lot of information isn't in a book. You may need to talk to someone who was collecting shark teeth before you were born. Jess WOW! Thank you guys so much!!! Your replies have been very helpful. One of the reasons I asked this question is because when I first started fossil hunting it was a goal of mine to collect a sample from every species in the world. Does a list like this exist? If so, has anyone ever completed it? It's a HUGE task, but I still have plenty of time (I hope). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 For me, there is nothing more rewarding than being able to review a species, and all the different names which have been used to describe it, and get it all straightened out. Then, and only then, can you really begin to understand the history - the evolutionary history - of that animal, and make sense of its geographic and chronological distribution. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govinn Posted April 10, 2013 Author Share Posted April 10, 2013 Hey Jess. Thank you so much for your insight. I should call you "in-siteseer" Your baseball card analogy makes great sense! I thought it would be hard to find all the various species, but now I'm realizing that the hardest part is going to be to keep it updated... Hey Rich. I agree with you 100%. "Participating" with a species (much like art) will enhance your appreciation of it. Thank you all for your wonderful comments. John History will be kind to me for I intend to write it. ~Sir Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toren Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 ok i have a head ache now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creto Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 A fairly good list of valid species can be found at sharkreferences.com. I find it useful also because that website has links to a lot of good papers in PDF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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