Design Student Questions To Fossil Collectors Amateur And Professionals

[pazificer]

I wonder if a chair for lab work might be a consideration.

Personally, I don't have the steadiest of hands and sometimes when I'm working on something in my "lab" (otherwise known as my garage), I have trouble positioning the fossil and still supporting my arms sufficiently so my hands don't shake too much. Depending on the position I end up in, my arms and shoulders can tire quickly since they're not supported and having to reach.

I remember when businesses used to have their store-front windows hand painted for special occasions (insert old-fart joke here). I remember watching one of those window painters working once. He had used suction cups to mount a wooden rod across the window. He then propped his arm on the wooden rod to steady his hand as he painted. As he painted, he would then move the rod to the next area to be painted.

I wonder if some sort of chair with adjustable/extendable arm rests might help in this situation. The arms of the chair could be adjusted so that your arms would be supported over the fossil, minimizing your hands from shaking quite so much and reducing shoulder/arm fatigue.

Something like this may have more uses, such as model builders, etc.

how many hours do you spend on doing that? and one hand holds the fossil and the other works? do you need a fossil hanger holder or something?

[pazificer]

Chairs are for the lab.

For collecting in the field, most often the overarching need is for least encumbrance (beach combing requires nothing at all). Elsewise, when a find is made and the extraction of it commences, the ergonomic requirements of any supporting appliance will be defined by the specific circumstances. Often, kneeling and/or prone positions are called for; sitting is less so, but can occasionally be needed. The collecting environment can be counted on to be dirty, muddy, wet, hot, cold...comparatively harsh in general, so mechanical simplicity is an imperative.

mechanical flexibility i would say in instead of simplicity. do you agree?

[Auspex]

Flexibility of use in varying positions is desirable, because the specific situations will vary; with mechanical complications, attention needs be paid to robustness (the designer's compromise).

[BobWill]

when you say that "limit the likehood of tipping over" . you mean the tools tipping over? Like you leave the tools on the ground and they tip over to somewhere and then you have to stop and picked them up?

I was thinking of something to prevent the chair from tipping over, like splayed legs. Remember that we would be leaning over to engage something at ground level. This is why, as others have said, we would seldom use a chair. It would have to be like nearly squatting down anyway. The idea of something to lay down on might work but seems to large to add to the load we carry. Generally we only use a hammer, maybe a chisel, since it's better to do detailed matrix removal back at the lab. The only other reason to spend much time in one spot might be for screening which involves shoveling material into a screen and is better done in shallow water where we can use the water to help wash away the dirt from the rocks, so not really a time for sitting.

I'm still not sure if your assignment was meant for the act of collecting fossils or could include the other activity collectors sometimes engage in like detailed cleaning in the lab, but to answer your question to Sward, we can spend many hours leaning over a desk or bench prepping a fossil and usually the fossil is sitting on a sand bag if it's large enough to sit still and we engage it with a tool for removing matrix. His idea of a prop for your arms might help if there was a lot of work needed in one area but seems like it would require set-up that may be too complex for most jobs.

[Auspex]

The usual irregular collecting surface would require three legs for stability.

[pazificer]

The assignment was given to me last week, tomorrow I will ask those question about where/when should it be used. For what I've been reading from, a chair its not very necessary instead good knee pads would be wonderfull I guess : ). But the assignment is chair/stool for Fossil collectors ( and the say for people who do it as a hobby but I guess the difference shouldnt be as much)

[pazificer]

Would a pos collecting station chair on site where you could seat and clean (?) your fossil would be helpfull? How many hours do you spend at site? do you eat there? what about the physiological needs ?

thanks,

david

[BobWill]

Would a pos collecting station chair on site where you could seat and clean (?) your fossil would be helpfull? How many hours do you spend at site? do you eat there? what about the physiological needs ?

thanks,

david

Typically cleaning is reserved for the lab. On site we try to get the piece to a manageable size for transport without damaging it. The time at a site varies from a few hours to a day but involves moving from place to place in search of specimens unless we're working on a large fossil which means moving around the piece chiseling, digging, sawing or applying protective plaster for transport. Smaller ones may need chiseled out of a larger rock or dug out of softer material. Food is snacks and physiological needs are suppressed...that explains the funny look on our face

[sward]

how many hours do you spend on doing that? and one hand holds the fossil and the other works? do you need a fossil hanger holder or something?

I don't spend as much time prepping as others do (though I need to spend more time doing it). Many of our members may spend days/weeks/months prepping a single fossil, depending on the amount of material to be removed.

Many times the fossil being prepped is small and we're only removing a small amount of material. In these cases, yes, usually one hand holds the fossil and the other holds the tool. A "prepping chair" would not be needed in such cases.

However, in many cases, the fossil being prepped is very large, or the block of material the fossil is in is very large. This is the scenario that I visualize a "fossil prepping" chair with some sort of arm support could be useful. If the block of material is large, many times I end up having to position the block and then reach over the block for extended periods while I'm prepping. This is where my shoulder/arm fatigue comes into play.

One of our expert fossil preppers on this forum is Terry Dactyll. Here is a link to his "Fossil Prep Workshop" topic:

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/9182-fossil-prep-workshop/page-1

I've taken the liberty of attaching a couple of Terry's pics from that topic to demonstrate what I mean by starting with a large block of material and "removing everything that's not a fossil". The fist pic shows the block of material partially prepped. Note the size of the block as compared to his coffee mug.

Now note the finished product. Note how Terry not only removed all of the surrounding material away from the fossils, but also removed the material from the "center swirls" of each ammonite to show the details of the swirls.

I can't imagine the hours that Terry must have spent prepping this particular example.

I believe this is an excellent example showing how some of the prepping process is removing large amounts of material. However, at some point during the process, it becomes a matter of removing very small amounts of material, very slowly, so the fossil is not damaged. This detailed prepping is particularly where I could envision a "prepping chair".

By the way, I'm impressed that you've been given an assignment on something that you may not be too familiar with (fossil hunting/prepping) and have been thoroughly researching your assignment. Finding this forum and asking the questions you have demonstrates that you will become an excellent designer once you graduate. Congratulations.

[Vordigern]

my kids and I hunt mostly in streams and for about 10 years we have used a pair of short wooden camping stools that scissor open and have a piece of canvas that stretches open to sit on. They are about 20" high so we can set them up in a stream and dont have to lean over very far to put gravel into our sifters. The only ways I can think of to improve them is making them out of a lighter material and maybe modifying the ends of the legs which over time eventually start sinking into the gravel and after 45 minutes to an hour you have to stand up and reset the stool

[Auspex]

I have used the simple, strong, and lightweight "Roll-a-Chair", but it has four legs, and is thus less suited to irregular surfaces.

This "Quick-E-Seat" would be more stable: LINK, but it is mechanically more complex (and no doubt heavier).

[pazificer]

One of my main ideas now is one legged chair with a spring in the bottom which you can use to lean the bench down and seat near the floor and if you want to go to the original position you can you the strength of the spring. The foot of the stool would be plastic in some way that it doesnt get damaged by the gravilla stones and so on and it doesnt sink.
The other idea would be a chair/children kit to fossil collect in their backyard or something like that amateur and as a hobby.

What do you think of it?

But I'm still not very confident in this ideas, thank you for the useful info.

David

[Ash]

What about like a camera tripod style, with the chair on top and each leg collapsable and adjustable to various angles and heights? Would be great for working on a layer thats almost 90deg to the ground where you're just standing there carefully digging away with a hammer. Not much movement when doing that for potentially hours. Thinking along the styles of a Manfrotto tripod, they have a heck of a lot of ranges of movement and adjustability..

I mean when working a shelf like this.

Cheers,

Ash.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Ash

[pazificer]

What about like a camera tripod style, with the chair on top and each leg collapsable and adjustable to various angles and heights? Would be great for working on a layer thats almost 90deg to the ground where you're just standing there carefully digging away with a hammer. Not much movement when doing that for potentially hours. Thinking along the styles of a Manfrotto tripod, they have a heck of a lot of ranges of movement and adjustability..

I mean when working a shelf like this.

Cheers,

Ash.

thank you for the tip and the photo, the photos are ver needed if you guys have more. I though on that a multi leg chair where you could choose where each leg goes, im going to work on the type of surface to, rock muddy and so on so you can get the best grip and balance possible in each situation.

My main idea is also one legged stool more simple than i described earlier.

Where were you standing in the picture? you werent squating or leaning or something were you?

again thanks for all the help!

[Ash]

Standing directly in front, where the hammer is sitting is about 1.2m up. It's pretty much a right angle to the ground. I'll put up more pics when I get home Sunday (going to have a look Sunday as well)

[Terry Dactyll]

I been flicking onto this thread now and again with interest dreaming of being carried down the beach in moon buggies and such more importantly carrying my finds back.... With so many variables its going to be very difficult to please everyone but what about something on the lines of a shooting stick that folds down into a seat...adjustable in height and doubles as a walking stick for steadying yourself on uneven terrain when not in use... You could have a small bag attached to it containing magnifier, pens and specimen bags.... etc etc....

Sorry if this has already been thought of....

[pazificer]

Thanks terry indeed some inspiration from the shooting stick! My idea now, because its so flexible this hobby you can found it anywhere and in anykind of place, my idea is to make a "choose yourself" stool. You can choose if you want 1-3 legs maybe some rope to grab somewhere for balance or safety. Still thinking on it.

Other idea would be a kid chair-kit that would be easier for children to fossil collect, altough i don't think they need it, do they?

Any suggestions are welcome!

thanks again for the good info,

David

[Terry Dactyll]

Its not an easy concept.... The movement across varying terrains encountered whilst fossil collecting make chairs an extra thing to carry really...and the amount of times you would need to sit on one would be infrequent....Its a shame your brief wasnt an artists chair where keeping still and comfort were important...

[donckey]

Hi David,

I like to have a multifunctional "transportationchair"

Although depending on what kind of site someone is looking for fossils, I would love to have a tool to transport heavy digging equipment into the site and hopefully to transport the equipment together with a lot of fossilmaterial back to the car.

A chair should be integrated in this transportkid so I can have a good rest after beating my body getting out some fossils. At my age that is about every half an hour

This transportationchair should have 3 or 4 airtires which can easily handle rough an rocky terrain but also sandy beaches.

An electrical device for helping me pushing this transporter would be very welcome, especialy when the way out of a quarry is a very steep wayout. Also handy for passing dunes to get to and of beaches.

Right now I get an image which looks like a combination of an electric driven golfbagtransporter and a kind of transportable box used for (sea) fishing

If you can manage to make such a thing you are welcome to donate the prototype to me as an appreciation for this splendid idea

Peter

[Wrangellian]

Don't ask for much, do you? Sounds brilliant, though... How much would it cost?

[grampa dino]

As you said a stool not a chair but the both of them

How would it work if the back was reshaped and became the front as elbow rest's

I show this idea in a bar in Montana ( J. Horner country") a few years back

[Herb]

I would like a tripod, padded, stool about 18" high with hydraulic, self leveling, gyroscopically controlled legs made out of aluminium . No, seriously.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Herb