Ronbo Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I found this diving in the Cooper River last month, I think its a Ray Barb or maybe a Spine from a catfish,not sure which.. Thanks Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoRon Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Fish spine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I really couldn't tell you what it is, but one thig that would most certainly help would be a scale? How many in/cm long is it or how big is it compared to a quarter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 OOps sorry about the quarter,I forgot it, This is a little over 3 inches long, I was thinking spine because of the knuckle joint is kinda one sided I thought the ray barbs kinda mounted more central.. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pristiformes Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Definitely from a teleost, not from a batoid. Probably a pectoral fin spine from the family Ariidae (marine catfishes) or family Ichtaluridae (freshwater catfishes). It's in great shape, and it seems to me that you shoudl be able to determine it at least to genus using literature focusing on the fossil vertebrates of that area and epoch. Nice find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 Here is another pic of it on the working end. I was thinking fish spine too because it isnt even on both sides of the joint, and looks to have been a side mount type of weapon instead of one that would have been mounted to the top of the tail, Thanks again for the replies Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Looks like fish spine, nice find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I agree, and I'm pulling more towards Ichtaluridae; an example of a ariidae spine would be: http://www.aquarticles.com/images/James%20...0Cat/arius1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 It is beautifully preserved; if you can track down good images for comparison, the ID (at least as to Genus) should be easy. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 This catfish spine resembles the pectoral spine from (Pleistocene) Arius felis, as illustrated on page 99 of THE FOSSIL VERTEBRATES OF FLORIDA. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 agree catfish spine - have found very similar in freshwater locales and saltwater locales. fortunately have not found embedded in me at any point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 so far I have found plenty of reading on it but no good pictures,I`ll look some more when I get home.. Thanks for the input, Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 wow look at that, nice fish spine you got there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pristiformes Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 agree catfish spine - have found very similar in freshwater locales and saltwater locales. fortunately have not found embedded in me at any point. Embedded catfish spines are a minor nuisance, while embedded stingray spines are a whole other matter entirely. If catfish envenomation rates a 1 out of 10 on the irritant-o-meter, then stingray spine envenomation would send the needle through the far end of the scale! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Embedded catfish spines are a minor nuisance, while embedded stingray spines are a whole other matter entirely. If catfish envenomation rates a 1 out of 10 on the irritant-o-meter, then stingray spine envenomation would send the needle through the far end of the scale! While I don't doubt the rating is off the scale for a stingray spine, because a scratch across the stomach was about a 0.5 to 1 on the irritant-o-meter for a short while, I can say that the rating for catfish is somewhat proportional to the percentage reading on the embed-o-meter. i.e., 98% dorsal fin embedation in the top of the foot runs the irritant-o-meter up a bit higher than a 1. Maybe a 5 or so with brief, intermittent spikes up to 8 or 9. Don't ever want to find out how far off the scale the stingray gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pristiformes Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 While I don't doubt the rating is off the scale for a stingray spine, because a scratch across the stomach was about a 0.5 to 1 on the irritant-o-meter for a short while, I can say that the rating for catfish is somewhat proportional to the percentage reading on the embed-o-meter. i.e., 98% dorsal fin embedation in the top of the foot runs the irritant-o-meter up a bit higher than a 1. Maybe a 5 or so with brief, intermittent spikes up to 8 or 9. Don't ever want to find out how far off the scale the stingray gets. MikeD, those are good points all around! I guess I automatically associate catfish spine injuries with the upper body, especially the hands. I think a lot of injuries happen while dealing with a captured catfish rather than treading on one. Similarly, I associate most stingray spine inflictions with the foot or ankle, since it happens usually when one is wading or a similar activity. A large portion of dorsal spine in the top of the foot sounds rather less then ideal, and maybe it is similar (in terms of pain and longer-term problems) to getting jabbed by a stingray in the same area. It varies with species and probably other factors. The baddest of the bad stingray encounters is said to be with the larger species of freswater rays of the Amazon River basin, while the baddest catfish encounters are said to occur with saltwater cats (Ariidae) and Asian catfish. Of course, it goes without saying that the very worst catfish issue anyone can end up with is an encounter with the tiny Amazonian candiru kittycat that finds a backdoor into which to swim.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 While I don't doubt the rating is off the scale for a stingray spine, because a scratch across the stomach was about a 0.5 to 1 on the irritant-o-meter for a short while, I can say that the rating for catfish is somewhat proportional to the percentage reading on the embed-o-meter. i.e., 98% dorsal fin embedation in the top of the foot runs the irritant-o-meter up a bit higher than a 1. Maybe a 5 or so with brief, intermittent spikes up to 8 or 9. Don't ever want to find out how far off the scale the stingray gets. I've always wondered how "noodlers" avoid those catfish pectoral spines. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 I've always wondered how "noodlers" avoid those catfish pectoral spines. They stick their hands in the fishes mouth to avoid the spines lol and On the pain meter thing whichever is worse I cant say never been stuck by a ray, and this spine just looks deadly and it could do some major cutting on ya.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 MikeD, those are good points all around! I guess I automatically associate catfish spine injuries with the upper body, especially the hands. I think a lot of injuries happen while dealing with a captured catfish rather than treading on one. Similarly, I associate most stingray spine inflictions with the foot or ankle, since it happens usually when one is wading or a similar activity. A large portion of dorsal spine in the top of the foot sounds rather less then ideal, and maybe it is similar (in terms of pain and longer-term problems) to getting jabbed by a stingray in the same area. It varies with species and probably other factors. The baddest of the bad stingray encounters is said to be with the larger species of freswater rays of the Amazon River basin, while the baddest catfish encounters are said to occur with saltwater cats (Ariidae) and Asian catfish. Of course, it goes without saying that the very worst catfish issue anyone can end up with is an encounter with the tiny Amazonian candiru kittycat that finds a backdoor into which to swim.... Most of my experience was with hand injuries and are a nuisance. This one did a triple gainer off the hook and into my foot while I was educating my kids about the dangers of catfish spines. Took a good two weeks just to start feeling better. Candiru - that would have to be way of fthe scale. I've always wondered how "noodlers" avoid those catfish pectoral spines.Me, too, and I've wondered how many of them are missing fingers from a snapper bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Most of my experience was with hand injuries and are a nuisance. This one did a triple gainer off the hook and into my foot while I was educating my kids about the dangers of catfish spines. Took a good two weeks just to start feeling better... OK, I've had a "catfish" pectoral fin spine, not unlike Ronbo's, go through a stiff leather shoe when I was about 11. (Dad said to quit kicking hardheads off the pier...!) Since it broke off of the fish outside the shoe, the pain o'meter reached deafening levels when someone tried to remove my shoe. The only trip to the hospital in my youth ended with the staff cutting off the shoe and using dry ice to cool my foot. (That was a 5 person hold me down pain o'meter reading.) Turns out the spine hit a vein on my instep that would have bled profusely if they didn't use the dry ice. I haven't kicked a dead hardhead since, but only in recent months have I really seen what these spines look like. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 I think them spines are supposed to be for defense but they sure look offensive..lol Now this is gonna sound kinda like making a funny but many years ago I was bank fishing and there was a really cool old guy just down from me fishing and he told me when ya get stuck to take the catfish and rub his vent on the sting and it will stop burning....I have tried it and it sure seems to help.. True story too,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 JohnJ - a good story, and a good motto to live by. "never kick a hardhead" a knowledgeable guy warned me about catfish spines years ago and showed me how he cleaned the fish. he would nail their heads down and skin them with pliers to avoid handling them too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I think I'll just stick with Brook Trout; the worst thing I ever get impaled with is my own lure... "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I have been stuck by the spine of catfish so much I can't count them all but the worst was when the spine went in my palm and came out through the meaty part of my hand by my thumb. That thing swelled up huge, hurt like **** and took about a month to heal. And as for "nooddling" them that is a chance you take, because you are going to get stuck by them no matter how careful you are, it is just a matter of when and how bad. My mom taught me how to do it when I was about 6, except she called it "grabbalinig", I don't think that is a word but that is what she called it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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