White Pen?

[Wrangellian]

I don't know if I'm rehashing a topic already covered but I'm still looking for a fine-tipped archival white-ink pen that I can use for putting numbers on my fossils. The smallest I have been able to find so far is a 1mm felt tip, which sounds good but in practice I can not write very fine with this size. I wonder if there is such a thing as a less-than-1mm tip (0.5mm?) available anywhere? In the same store I saw what looks like a ball-point tip white pen but I don't know if this would write on rock and I'm getting kind of tired of buying new pens that end up not working - they can be expensive! If anyone could give me a name of a pen or a store or website I would appreciate it. I am accumulating a lot of fossils, many of them small, and the previous methods are a bit cumbersome and since the whiteout and black ink method might not cut it in the long run and will probably have to be redone (800+ fossils and counting!), it's time to switch to something easier and more trustworthy.

Just had a thought... maybe I can shave down the felt tip a bit to make it finer. Will try that and report back whether successful or not, but still would like an answer to the above.

[sward]

Koh-I-Noor makes a series of technical drafting pens down to approximately 0.1mm.

Ink link:

http://www.kohinoorusa.com/products/inks/universal/index.php

Pen link:

http://www.kohinoorusa.com/products/pens/rapidograph/pens/index.php

I'm not sure how these would work on an irregular surface, though.

Edited June 14, 2013 by sward

[Wendell Ricketts]

Hey Wrangellian. FWIW, I don't buy expensive pens for the reasons you mention (they often don't work and also dry out relatively quickly), but for 30+ years I've used "dip pens" with removable nibs and rather cheap plastic holders (like the kind you can see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nibs_penholders.jpg). Admittedly, it's getting harder and harder to find them, and it does take some practice to use them, but they do last a fair while. The nibs have to be cleaned occasionally, but it's not that much of a hassle. I use black India ink for lighter colored specimens and, rarely, white ink for darker ones. India ink doesn't come off with water, but a lot of the commonly available white inks do (so you'd have to check around). The nibs come in very fine sizes. Increasingly, though, esp. with small or rough-surfaced fossils, I've moved to a system of gluing on (with a reversible glue) small, printed paper numbers, which is time-consuming and gives me some concerns about whether the numbers are eventually going to start falling off, but it seems preferable to struggling with the other option on uncooperative fossils. I've seen a few old museum collections (100-150 years old) and India ink does seem to hold up. I have no data one way or another, but wonder whether pre-loaded drafting inks will last as long. They'll probably last as long as my laser-printed numbers.... W.

[erose]

Here is a document from the American Museum of Natural History that I obtained a number of years back. Doesn't have a white ink source but it does explain what you are looking for in the ink itself.

I also completely understand about using technical pens. I started my career as a draftsman and for a number of years did a lot of pen and ink illustration. The pens have to be used often and maintained daily. You just can't leave india ink in a pen for any length of time. Every week or two I would have to take them all apart and run them in an ultrasonic cleaner. I still use them for labeling fossils but I do big batches and when done break the pens down, clean them an store them until next time.

Davidson_et_al_2006.pdf

[Wendell Ricketts]

Thanks, Erose. Very useful article!

W.

[Wrangellian]

Thanks both.. so a quill pen will work on rock? and I just fill it with white acrylic paint? That sounds easy, I might even have some white acrylic around here.

The pen I'm using says it is permanent, but apparently that only means it is waterproof. Hmmm... I wish it would say on the pen whether it was lightfast or what type of pigment it is!

[Lmshoemaker]

I use pigma microns which come in a variety of colors, I'm not sure if they have white though, but sizes can be as small as .2mm

[Scylla]

Thanks Erose. My collection used to be labeled with cardstock labels. Until all the labels were separated from the specimens, a few that survived were eaten by silverfish, I wish I had that info 30+ years ago.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Scylla

[Wrangellian]

The best system I could come up with is to put a number on every specimen and put the data in a notebook... then I only have the notebook to keep away from damp/pests/etc. and because I'm always using it it doesn't tend to get lost! The only thing I'm missing is that pen. I tried shaving down the tip on that one I recently bought but it still writes kind of a thick line. I don't know why a fine (<1mm) tip white pen is so much harder to find than a fine tip black pen! Those are a dime a dozen!

[Wrangellian]

I use pigma microns which come in a variety of colors, I'm not sure if they have white though, but sizes can be as small as .2mm

Thanks, it doesnt look like they have white. The one I am using is a Sakura Pen-touch but they didn't have anything smaller than 1mm*. I was hoping that was only because it was a small store in a small town, though, and maybe the larger stores in larger cities would have more of a selection.

(*The nub is actually more than 1mm but comes to a point which I guess they assumed would make a 1mm line - the trouble is the felt compresses and the ink flows outward some - you need a really delicate touch to make a line finer than 1mm)

Edited June 15, 2013 by Wrangellian

[Lmshoemaker]

Thanks, it doesnt look like they have white. The one I am using is a Sakura Pen-touch but they didn't have anything smaller than 1mm*. I was hoping that was only because it was a small store in a small town, though, and maybe the larger stores in larger cities would have more of a selection.

(*The nub is actually more than 1mm but comes to a point which I guess they assumed would make a 1mm line - the trouble is the felt compresses and the ink flows outward some - you need a really delicate touch to make a line finer than 1mm)

I'm surprised actually; I tried searching a few other brands, and none of the fine art pens have white, which is odd because art seems like it would be the most common application for white ink.

[Wrangellian]

Yes.. I don't know what it is about white ink that they are not as easily available and impossible to find in smaller tip sizes - for any use! I guess most paper is white, so...

[Scylla]

How about florescent inks. Some are invisible until you shine UV light on them. Now you can write as large as you want and the number will not show, until you need it. Then you just shine a black light on it and there it is!

[Wrangellian]

Interesting idea.... that's thinking outside the box! Sounds a little cumbersome to read them though, and maybe UV isn't good for some fossils?

Edited June 15, 2013 by Wrangellian

[Scylla]

Well the exposure would be short, I would worry more about UV on the fossil collector. I must admit it is not my idea though, I saw it somewhere before where they use UV inks for theft detection.

[Wrangellian]

Well it is an interesting idea... I wonder also however, does UV ink fade with time like most other (non-archival) inks do, even though the black light might not be on them long?

[Scylla]

I guess it depends on the chemistry of the ink. I really do not know how long they last, never having used them. Sorry.

[Wrangellian]

No worries, just curious. Doubt I will be going that route anyway... I still think there has to be a <1mm tip white pen somewhere!

[jpc]

I use Pigma Micron .oo5 pens. The one I use at home lasts me a long time. The ones at the museum, (where many people use them and some may be less delicate than me) tend to not last very long. Easily trashed, but last a long time if carefully handled, even on rough surfaces.

[Auspex]

I use Pigma Micron .oo5 pens...

Here's the mfg's website: LINK

No white, though...

It's beginning to look like a dab of white paint and a black pen is the way to go.

[Wrangellian]

Yes, I'm looking for white. I have no trouble finding fine-tip black archival pens. I don't understand why there are no comparable white ones. Is there so little demand for fine white lines that they don't think it's economical to produce them?? Or is it something about the ink itself that can't be applied that finely? I have a hard time believing either. It would be a lot easier to just write on the rock in white (then cover with clear if necessary) rather than having to apply a dab of white first. I could put up with that if only a few of my fossils were on black shale rather than ALL of them.

I guess I'm going to have to try the quill pen idea as soon as I get ahold of one and the ink/paint to go with it.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Wrangellian

[RickNC]

I picked up one of these micron 01 archival pens figuring it would be perfect for labeling fossils. The problem I am having is that on a smooth surface (shark tooth enamel) the ink wipes right off even after 24 hours.

[Auspex]

Label a small slip of paper, only as large as is needed. Apply a swipe of Paraloid (or similar), stick the label to the swipe, and overcoat with Paraloid. This is a professionally archival method, and is completely reversible.

[RickNC]

Thanks Auspex. Is paraloid similar to butvar? I have some butvar.

[obsessed1]

While I don't see the pens you are looking for this vendor might have some supplies that could be useful.

http://www.museumservicescorporation.com/scat/co.html