Westmoreland Meg Poo!

[gwe106]

I was down in Va over the summer at Westmoreland State Park for a few days there, camping out with a few people from a nature center that I volunteer at, just hanging around for a few days to collect some fossils at the small beach they have there. The resident ranger that worked there was willing to give us a group tour of the park and give us a small lesson on the fossils found there. I believe he had a degree in that area so he was pretty knowledgeable about the area and its fossils (miocene). He brought us down to the beach and took us to the far end right in a very large area full of small rocks of various colors. He asked us what fossils we could see on the ground and nobody knew. He picked up several rocks of various colors and told us that it was fossilized shark and whale poo (I can't remember the "scientific" name so poo will do just fine). He went on to tell us how several researchers from a university came in to do research on these rocks and were able to figure out which color rock belonged to which creature depending on the small fossilized remnants of what was inside each rock. Needless to say after our group was shocked to hear all this we took a lot of the rocks. The deep red colored rock was apparently from a Megalodon, gray with white stripes from a type of whale and another pale yellow from a lemon shark. I have all of these different colors (I filled my backpack with poo), mostly from the Megalodon. I was just wondering if anyone else knew about this stuff at all or has been to Westmoreland and knew about it?

[tracer]

don't know about the location you mentioned but fossilized poop is well known. they're called coprolites.

thanks for posting.

[gwe106]

I was aware of fossil coprolite but I didn't know how common it was to find marine coprolite since it would have been in the water, or if anyone else had any of it. I just thought it was kind of cool

[Auspex]

That ranger is a hoot! He always tries to see how many folks he can get to lug heavy packs full of rocks up from the beach!

Just kidding . Coprolites are found there, but not in that sort of concentration. Also, microscopic analysis can sometimes reveal something about what was eaten (and thus about the eater), but the color is totally dependent on the minerals present in the encasing matrix. No way anyone could use the color of the fossil to ID the source. The shapes can be a big clue, though.

[Metopocetus]

I was aware of fossil coprolite but I didn't know how common it was to find marine coprolite since it would have been in the water, or if anyone else had any of it. I just thought it was kind of cool

I have found some but I didn't think it was that common.

[fossilselachian]

"pale yellow from a lemon shark. I have all of these different colors (I filled my backpack with poo), mostly from the Megalodon. I was just wondering if anyone else knew about this stuff at all or has been to Westmoreland and knew about it?

What other color of "poo" would a lemon shark have but yellow!!

[Guest bmorefossil]

i have around 12 pieces of coprolite, and all of mine are a dark brown, i dont think the colors would be that much different if they are all from the same layer. Being that they all fossillized in the same material they would all basicly be the same color. Now shape can change alot. I have flat and round coprolite. Some even look like crabs and lobsters and most have bone in them. As the water wears the coprolite down the bone sticks out.

[Carl O'Cles]

I would say that ranger is full of what he was showing you. Post some pic's. The only color poo i ever found at that beach was a tanish color or a black color.

On a side note westmoreland park just kills me. They closed the beach about five years ago becasue it was said to be to dangerous. Keep in mind that no one had died in a cliff fall EVER at this park although someone did get killed about fifteen years earlier at stratford just south of there and they were kinda diggin in the cliff, kinda. Now figure that in virginia four hunter have been killed in the last month. Two of them shot and killed them selves one fell out of a tree stand and died and the other was killed by a friend who thought he was a deer. So answer me this if one person had been killed in probally the last thirty years collecting fossils and four died hunting in the last month how is it to unsafe to collect fossils but it is safe enough to hunt?????? What a joke.

[Guest bmorefossil]

I would say that ranger is full of what he was showing you. Post some pic's. The only color poo i ever found at that beach was a tanish color or a black color.

On a side note westmoreland park just kills me. They closed the beach about five years ago becasue it was said to be to dangerous. Keep in mind that no one had died in a cliff fall EVER at this park although someone did get killed about fifteen years earlier at stratford just south of there and they were kinda diggin in the cliff, kinda. Now figure that in virginia four hunter have been killed in the last month. Two of them shot and killed them selves one fell out of a tree stand and died and the other was killed by a friend who thought he was a deer. So answer me this if one person had been killed in probally the last thirty years collecting fossils and four died hunting in the last month how is it to unsafe to collect fossils but it is safe enough to hunt?????? What a joke.

i thought you guys hunt over there?

[gwe106]

I'll post some pictures but from what the ranger said he told us that the different colored poo represented the different animals as the two researchers came to that conclusion. The color had something to do with the proteins in the animals diet or something like that. I'm not saying any of this is true it's just what he told our group. But I'll get some pictures tomorrow

[Guest bmorefossil]

I'll post some pictures but from what the ranger said he told us that the different colored poo represented the different animals as the two researchers came to that conclusion. The color had something to do with the proteins in the animals diet or something like that. I'm not saying any of this is true it's just what he told our group. But I'll get some pictures tomorrow

well the only problem with this is when the poo becomes fossillized the minerals replace all of the poo. So unless you have some REAL poo lol you have some rocks in a bag. The researchers were full of the coprolite that they made you pick up. if you want i could post a few of my coprolite so you know what to look for

[gwe106]

yea thanks bmore that would work. I'd love to see some pictures just so I can compare too

[Carl O'Cles]

i thought you guys hunt over there?

Nope havn't hunted westmoreland since it closed

[Guest bmorefossil]

Nope havn't hunted westmoreland since it closed

but you do hunt somewhere in va. right?

[Boesse]

I am highly skeptical of basically everything that ranger said. You cannot tell the different producer of coprolites based on their color, like Auspex stated; in fact, it is usually impossible to tell the different coprolite producers.

Color of a fossil or of a rock is partially controlled by the original mineralogy of the material, and also by diagenesis (changes that happen to a rock or fossil after burial). Often the combination of the chemistry of groundwater percolating through a fossil deposit and the chemicals being leached out of the fossil by groundwater will affect the color.

Bobby

[Boesse]

By the way - I'm unaware of anyone currently researching shark coprolites from anywhere in the Chesapeake Group; the researchers he mentioned might have been there studying something else, and just happened to give him some basic info on the coprolites (which sound more like ordinary rocks).

Bobby

[Carl O'Cles]

but you do hunt somewhere in va. right?

Yes i do have some sites in virginia. The problem with virginia is that unlike maryland the state only owns up to the low tide mark so the second you step foot on a beach you are tresspassing. I have been fortunate enough to aquire access to some of thes locations.

[Guest bmorefossil]

Yes i do have some sites in virginia. The problem with virginia is that unlike maryland the state only owns up to the low tide mark so the second you step foot on a beach you are tresspassing. I have been fortunate enough to aquire access to some of thes locations.

you guys ever going to head up to maryland again?

[non-remanié]

Wasn't it more like carving a certain religious idol into the cliff face? </bad taste>

I would say that ranger is full of what he was showing you. Post some pic's. The only color poo i ever found at that beach was a tanish color or a black color.

On a side note westmoreland park just kills me. They closed the beach about five years ago becasue it was said to be to dangerous. Keep in mind that no one had died in a cliff fall EVER at this park although someone did get killed about fifteen years earlier at stratford just south of there and they were kinda diggin in the cliff, kinda. Now figure that in virginia four hunter have been killed in the last month. Two of them shot and killed them selves one fell out of a tree stand and died and the other was killed by a friend who thought he was a deer. So answer me this if one person had been killed in probally the last thirty years collecting fossils and four died hunting in the last month how is it to unsafe to collect fossils but it is safe enough to hunt?????? What a joke.

[Guest bmorefossil]

oh i almost forgot about the poo pictures, give me a sec.

[Guest bmorefossil]

here are most of my coprolite, i found one at the river once but lost it in the rocks!!!

[Phoenixflood]

Wasn't it more like carving a certain religious idol into the cliff face? </bad taste>

Huh??? I was told that someone came in with an auger in the middle of the night and tore into the cliff. I don't know about religious idols

I haven't been there wither since it has closed. It's all just sitting there left for the waves to crash the fossil upon the rocks with no one to collect them; That is the real crime!

Can you go down the beaches anymore or not? I think we should be able to sign a waver to less fossil hunters in. I mean, in state parks people climb mountains! Why can't we go fossil hunting?

[Auspex]

Can you go down the beaches anymore or not? I think we should be able to sign a waver to less fossil hunters in. I mean, in state parks people climb mountains! Why can't we go fossil hunting?

If you get caught on the beach, you can be arrested and charged with tresspass, after they confiscate your finds. Even if you come by boat and stay in the water, you will be hassled. They are very antagonistic; Stratford Hall and Stratford Harbor both employ uniformed guards. There is no question that fossil hunters accelerated cliff erosion by digging in it, even though it was forbidden (and they knew it). The land owners finally had enough.

[Phoenixflood]

If you get caught on the beach, you can be arrested and charged with tresspass, after they confiscate your finds. Even if you come by boat and stay in the water, you will be hassled. They are very antagonistic; Stratford Hall and Stratford Harbor both employ uniformed guards. There is no question that fossil hunters accelerated cliff erosion by digging in it, even though it was forbidden (and they knew it). The land owners finally had enough.

Yeah, well I agree that you should not dig in the cliffs. I was out on Saturday fossil hunting at the Willows and someone had hacked out a skull, or most of it. I saw, that deep it the cliff, two pieces of the rest of the beak going straight back into the cliffs. That really made me angry. I met a guy down there who was going to call the museum about it.

There really needs to be a fossil hunters code! Even discuss creating an ethics code! I think that is something we should create on this forum!

Anyway, with Westmoreland I think they should be able to make a list of rules, have people follow them, and allow people to hunt there, if they sign and agree to follow them.

[Auspex]

Anyway, with Westmoreland I think they should be able to make a list of rules, have people follow them, and allow people to hunt there, if they sign and agree to follow them.

They just don't have the resources to police it; keeping people off is all they can manage.

I once floated the idea that they could generate revenue by charging for escorted groups; it went over like a Baby Ruth in the pool. Maybe the new economic climate will make them more receptive.

(Tell them that the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel charges $50 an hour for escorting small, pre-approved groups of birders to the three closed tunnel islands).