Westmoreland Meg Poo!

[Guest bmorefossil]

Yeah, well I agree that you should not dig in the cliffs. I was out on Saturday fossil hunting at the Willows and someone had hacked out a skull, or most of it. I saw, that deep it the cliff, two pieces of the rest of the beak going straight back into the cliffs. That really made me angry. I met a guy down there who was going to call the museum about it.

sounds like you saw the squalodon skull, the museum already knows about it, first the teeth were taken then the skull. Wait you said you found a squalodon tooth right? that might be from that squalodon

[Guest bmorefossil]

If you get caught on the beach, you can be arrested and charged with tresspass, after they confiscate your finds. Even if you come by boat and stay in the water, you will be hassled. They are very antagonistic; Stratford Hall and Stratford Harbor both employ uniformed guards. There is no question that fossil hunters accelerated cliff erosion by digging in it, even though it was forbidden (and they knew it). The land owners finally had enough.

well someone i know, lets call him bob, bob just went over there and found 5 megs 40 makos and 65 hemis. bob's friend found a 4.5" meg, i would love to there but with the restrictions its just not worth it

[non-remanié]

I don't doubt that fossil hunters have illegally dug in the cliffs many times at Westmoreland and Stratford. But I asked Lauck Ward (formerly of the VMNH) about the differing stories I had heard and he said the person who got killed was NOT a fossil collector. There was some sort of religious camp at Stratford and for some reason they got the bright idea to carve a large cross into the cliff and oopsy the fossil rich strata must not have not liked his de facto attack on evolution and faught back. Then the family of the victim sued Stratford of course. Supposedly this is what eventually led to Stratford getting closed.

Huh??? I was told that someone came in with an auger in the middle of the night and tore into the cliff. I don't know about religious idols

I haven't been there wither since it has closed. It's all just sitting there left for the waves to crash the fossil upon the rocks with no one to collect them; That is the real crime!

Can you go down the beaches anymore or not? I think we should be able to sign a waver to less fossil hunters in. I mean, in state parks people climb mountains! Why can't we go fossil hunting?

[Guest bmorefossil]

I don't doubt that fossil hunters have illegally dug in the cliffs many times at Westmoreland and Stratford. But I asked Lauck Ward (formerly of the VMNH) about the differing stories I had heard and he said the person who got killed was NOT a fossil collector. There was some sort of religious camp at Stratford and for some reason they got the bright idea to carve a large cross into the cliff and oopsy the fossil rich strata must not have not liked his de facto attack on evolution and faught back. Then the family of the victim sued Stratford of course. Supposedly this is what eventually led to Stratford getting closed.

that sounds about right, I don't think I ever heard about this when it happened but it sure does see like it could

[Carl O'Cles]

Thats exactly what happened at stratford. Someone was carving a cross in the cliff and the cliff came down on them. Thats why i stated earlier that someone was kinda diggin in the cliffs. Such a shame that someone had to die while carving a cross. I have heard the story about the auger as well but i heard it was at stratford, but this might be bogus fossil lore. As for westmoreland they closed after the biggest slide i have ever seen in my life came down. I'm not kidding when i say this thing was as big as a football field, went at least 100 yards out into the water. There were pieces of cliff on the beach that were as big as a house.

Bmore, i do still collect up in maryland alot but not sure when i will be making it backup there again, maybe this weekend i will hit up PP, i love that place but man it's such a long walk to get there since my boats sitting for the winter. As for your friend "bob" its quite apparent who he is. I would HIGHLY reccomend that "bob" not mess around down that way. I can tell you with 100% percent certanty he WILL get caught and end up in jail. The other thing here is that if they get in there via boat their boat will most likely be confiscated by the police becasue they cannot just leave it in the water, I have seen this happen. The other big issue is that depending on the circumstances they might be charged with a felony and that is very bad. Last person i knew who got a felony tresspass after fines and lawyer fee's to stay out of jail had a bill right around $20,000. I'm not trying to be negative just explaining how it is around here and would highly reccomend that you pass this info on to "Bob". On a side note it is highly upsetting to me to have people tresspass at these sites. There is no chance they will ever re-open if people continue to do things like this. Last time i talked to the people at westmoreland i was told they would never think about re-opening until people stopped tresspassing on the land. The guy went on to say that if people are careless enough to tresspass when they know they are doing so then it is quite apparent that people would be digging in the cliffs.

[Guest bmorefossil]

hey just tell me which day you will be there would be great to meet you, i think i already did but we didnt talk, you came with your boat that day.

[tracer]

man - just picture it...

you get jammed up cuz you're caught with a squalodon tooth filched from a restricted area. judge is named C. U. Muchlater. Gives you 2 to 10 years in the crossbar hotel.

you get there. walk into the cellblock. door slams behind you. big old ugly father raper comes up to you and gets up in your face. he's got bad breath like he's been eating cat poop rolled in kitty litter. he says, "so, kid, whatcha in for?"

you say, "um, fossil rustling."

gonna be a loooooonnnngggg vacation...

[Phoenixflood]

sounds like you saw the squalodon skull, the museum already knows about it, first the teeth were taken then the skull. Wait you said you found a squalodon tooth right? that might be from that squalodon

The one at the Willows? I saw what was left Couldn't tell what it was but knew it had a beak because there where two bones sticking into the cliff; I assumes the would meet at a point futher in.

Could be from the same animal but who knows. I met a guy on the beach who said he was going to talk to musuem about it. I mean taking one out of the block is one thing but taking it out of the side of the cliff is another, if you don't know what you're doing ( being a professional) then you shouldn't be doing it.

That's why I said in another post that there should be some kind of ethical code for the amateur fossil hunter.

[Metopocetus]

Bmore, i do still collect up in maryland alot but not sure when i will be making it backup there again, maybe this weekend i will hit up PP, i love that place but man it's such a long walk to get there since my boats sitting for the winter. As for your friend "bob" its quite apparent who he is. I would HIGHLY reccomend that "bob" not mess around down that way. I can tell you with 100% percent certanty he WILL get caught and end up in jail. The other thing here is that if they get in there via boat their boat will most likely be confiscated by the police becasue they cannot just leave it in the water, I have seen this happen. The other big issue is that depending on the circumstances they might be charged with a felony and that is very bad. Last person i knew who got a felony tresspass after fines and lawyer fee's to stay out of jail had a bill right around $20,000. I'm not trying to be negative just explaining how it is around here and would highly reccomend that you pass this info on to "Bob". On a side note it is highly upsetting to me to have people tresspass at these sites. There is no chance they will ever re-open if people continue to do things like this. Last time i talked to the people at westmoreland i was told they would never think about re-opening until people stopped tresspassing on the land. The guy went on to say that if people are careless enough to tresspass when they know they are doing so then it is quite apparent that people would be digging in the cliffs.

Well, I think I know who you are talking about. I am assuming you are talking about Stratford Hall. The person "bob" went with actually has permission from the owners of Stratford Hall. He is the only or one of the only people to have permission to collect there. Anybody else takes the chance of being arrested like you said.

[Guest bmorefossil]

The one at the Willows? I saw what was left Couldn't tell what it was but knew it had a beak because there where two bones sticking into the cliff; I assumes the would meet at a point futher in.

Could be from the same animal but who knows. I met a guy on the beach who said he was going to talk to musuem about it. I mean taking one out of the block is one thing but taking it out of the side of the cliff is another, if you don't know what you're doing ( being a professional) then you shouldn't be doing it.

That's why I said in another post that there should be some kind of ethical code for the amateur fossil hunter.

Yea well I hope no one gets injured when they are digging in the cliff, I know it has happened before but you never know what they will do if something else happens. As for the squalodon skull, the museum went down to check it out only to find most of it gone, they decided to leave what was left.

[Dave Daniel AKA (Bones)]

Now those would make some mega size earrings. (enlarge your lobes)

[Guest bmorefossil]

Now those would make some mega size earrings. (enlarge your lobes)

But I have smaller ones ones that would be about the right size

[Dave Daniel AKA (Bones)]

But I have smaller ones ones that would be about the right size

Email me some pics if you want to sell some.

[Carl O'Cles]

Well, I think I know who you are talking about. I am assuming you are talking about Stratford Hall. The person "bob" went with actually has permission from the owners of Stratford Hall. He is the only or one of the only people to have permission to collect there. Anybody else takes the chance of being arrested like you said.

Thats good to hear, if that is the case then i know who bob went and collected with

[Fat Boy]

It's really ashame that things have to be like this (access along the cliffs). Calvert Cliffs State Park also implemented a similar policy, but I'm not aware of the aggressive patrolling that the VA parks do. I was collecting one summer at Flag Ponds state park with some family. We weren't along the shoreline edge and unaware of their policy of having to do that, so we learned the hard way. Apparently, the dry sand areas above the normal high tide line contain burrows of a protected tiger beetle, and walking over them crushes the burrows and their residents. So this teenage park employee come racing over the dry sandy areas at us with an ATV to scold us and set us straight. I swore that I'd never go back there I was so mad, and I haven't since. I wondered since then how many tiger beetles and larvae are destroyed by the daily ATV patrols, probably more than foot traffic could do. The policy is rediculous IMHO, and so are the ones regarding cliff access. Digging in the cliffs is illegal along the bay and the Potomac at Westmoreland, and if they are patrolling that much in VA then they'd be patrolling enough to catch offenders, so why not allow beachcombing, have the waiver signed, etc., or sell permits and force people to sign the waivers in order to obtain the permits. They can patrol just like they do for checking fishing licenses. The potential threat of getting caught is enough to get people to conform, plus it would be a good source of income. People would pay to collect there....and money would be made.

[Guest bmorefossil]

im not exactly sure but i am sure that Atropicallondon knows, but i think the tiger beetles live in the cliff and not in the sand, in that case i think that guy did want you walking up to the cliff and harm the beetles habitat

[Metopocetus]

http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?A=2723&Q=326064

Here is some info from Connecticut one of the other places the Puritan Tiger Beetle lives.

They do use Flag Ponds beach for burrows.

I've only seen the employees on the Gators and only along the tidal beach at Flag Ponds never in the areas behind that...but I can't speak for what they have done other times.

They also use the sandy cliffs here along the Chesapeake Bay. Especially in the cliffs where there are a lot of post Miocene deposits because they consist of very course but loosely packed sand.

http://64.233.169.132/search?q=cache:DtpQL...lient=firefox-a

[Fat Boy]

I've only seen the employees on the Gators and only along the tidal beach at Flag Ponds never in the areas behind that...but I can't speak for what they have done other times.

I can't speak for what's happened since I've been there several years ago, but that particular day, they drove over the dry sand beaches all day long chasing people away, at least a dozen times. There were track marks everywhere when we first got there. When I saw him approaching, my thought was that I hope he's not damaging any nice teeth that I'm looking for. I had collected there for several years prior to that without incident during busy times, so it was a surprise to me. Maybe it was a new policy then and they hadn't thought it all through, and perhaps since then the employees have been more careful, I can't say. I can only speak of what happened that day. I wasn't angry as much over the policy (as rediculous as I personally believe it to be), but rather the hypocrisy of the situation.