Pool Man Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Hello all! This is an odd bone I found recently. It was found in the upper part of the shell layer I dig in. The upper layer is where I find most of my land mammal fossils,but this could be marine also. Thanks for looking! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopocetus Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Possibly an astragalus? I don't know what it would belong to if that is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 It is an astragalus (ankle bone) of a perissodactyl (horses, rhinos, tapirs, etc.). -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Man Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Thanks guys! That will narrow my google search. I have been finding a fair amount of horse teeth in the imediate area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Thanks guys! That will narrow my google search. I have been finding a fair amount of horse teeth in the imediate area. Your astragalus is definitely NOT from a Perissodactyl . . . not a horse, not a tapir, not a rhino. I think you'd be better off searching for carnivore astragali. I don't have a bone like this one, but would like to for my collection. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I agree with Harry Pristis. I took a cursory look...saw the single pulley arrangement...and immediately concluded Perissodactyl. My error. Pretty big for a carnivore astragalus! -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrehistoricFlorida Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 This is a unique and rare astragulus. I would look at sloth. www.PrehistoricFlorida.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 This is a unique and rare astragulus. I would look at sloth. I think 'Auriculatus' is on the right track. I checked some astragali in my drawer, and eliminated some big carnivores. I started looking through miscellaneous bones, and I think I have a reasonable ID. I think your astragalus is from a giant armadillo, in this case Holmesina septentrionalis, the Middle-to-Late Pleistocene giant. Identification of 3-D bones in two dimensions is always tricky, but here is a pair of astragali from the related Holmesina floridanus for comparison. This is a species/bone that has eluded me, and I would make you an attractive trade to be able to put it into my comparative collection. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 must be a rare bone to have Harry asking for it, nice find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Man Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 Wow!! I believe you nailed it Harry! Thanks for all the replies everyone. I just might be willing to trade ya. For one ,it would be a honor to be able to add a piece to your collection. So, go ahead and PM me with an offer, and we'll see what happens. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Awesome find!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 How exciting! Congrats, Dan "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Here is Dan's find articulated with an appropriate cancaneum. Thanks, Dan! These are ankle bones or tarsals which are critical to movement (such as jumping vertically into an automobile undercarriage). Uhhhhh . . . sorry for the dark humor. Anyway, this was a black bear-size armadillo which didn't have to contend with highway traffic. Since the living armadillos are insectivores, I wonder what these extinct giants ate? Whatever it was, there must have been lots of it! (I don't think it was the wingless roaches we call "palmetto bugs" -- everything but a big spider will avoid a palmetto bug because of it's chemical defense.) Anyone have any ideas about giant armadillo food resources? http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 pretty cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Man Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 Harry, I read somewhere that the glyptodonts may have been corprophages(sp?)(dung eaters) With all the mega fauna around,there would have been plenty of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Harry, I read somewhere that the glyptodonts may have been corprophages(sp?)(dung eaters) With all the mega fauna around,there would have been plenty of it. I have not seen that speculation, Dan, but the evidence for coprophagy would be interesting. What sort of teeth (if any) would a coprophage need? Peg-like, without enamel? Hmmm . . . I dunno. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopocetus Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I have not seen that speculation, Dan, but the evidence for coprophagy would be interesting. What sort of teeth (if any) would a coprophage need? Peg-like, without enamel? Hmmm . . . I dunno. Well, many dogs do it so I wouldn't expect any specialization in the teeth for that purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Well, many dogs do it so I wouldn't expect any specialization in the teeth for that purpose. yes i agree, having a dog that does it, it may not be pretty but yes I dont see the the need for special teeth for dung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Well, many dogs do it so I wouldn't expect any specialization in the teeth for that purpose. Everyone has to eat sh-t now and then, but that doesn't make us obligate coprophages. (Dogs are really screwed up, aren't they!) We see specialization in teeth based on diet all the time. Look at the difference between cats and dogs for a ready example. Compare bears and dogs, dogs and raccoons, etc. I would expect to see some specialization in the teeth of a coprophage, and maybe we do. Maybe all the extinct Xenarthrans were obligate coprophages, since there are tooth similarities. ...But that seems farfetched. I don't have an answer to this question of diet or specialized teeth, 'atropicallonddon', I'm just looking for the most reasonable ideas. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Since the living armadillos are insectivores, I wonder what these extinct giants ate? Whatever it was, there must have been lots of it! (I don't think it was the wingless roaches we call "palmetto bugs" -- everything but a big spider will avoid a palmetto bug because of it's chemical defense.) Anyone have any ideas about giant armadillo food resources?... Harry, I wonder if there were larger grubs back then. Or, maybe there were a lot of a specific kind...maybe larger earthworms or millipedes. Any of these would be good 'dillo delights. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Harry, I wonder if there were larger grubs back then. Or, maybe there were a lot of a specific kind...maybe larger earthworms or millipedes. Any of these would be good 'dillo delights. Larger invertebrates . . . yes, that is an inescapable consideration. Aquatic inverts and small vertebrates in shallow streams are a possibility. I don't know any paleoentemology of Florida. Perhaps there was opportunistic feeding on small vertebrates turned up in foraging -- snakes and frogs wouldn't cause much stress on teeth without enamel. Perhaps, they also foraged for soft fruits. Here's an image of a giant armadillo upper teeth. They are typically worn flat from grinding on the lowers. Does this give any clues? http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Here's an image of a couple of cheek teeth from same individual represented by the calcaneum presented earlier in this thread. Notice the occlusal surfaces are ground flat from grinding against the opposing teeth. These teeth are without enamel, so they are not as easily preserved as other mammal teeth. When they are recovered, they have to be handled carefully. One of the teeth in the image had to be restored with an epoxy filler. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenixflood Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Here's an image of a couple of cheek teeth from same individual represented by the calcaneum presented earlier in this thread. Notice the occlusal surfaces are ground flat from grinding against the opposing teeth. These teeth are without enamel, so they are not as easily preserved as other mammal teeth. When they are recovered, they have to be handled carefully. One of the teeth in the image had to be restored with an epoxy filler. Very nice! Gee Harry, what don't you have? The soul of a Fossil Hunter is one that is seeking, always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Man Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks for the pics of the teeth, I hadn't seen a good one yet. Are there any growth rings on the teeth or other texture? I ask because I now think I have a tooth frag and a few jaw frags from one of these guys. Do you have a picture of the mandibles, especialy the very front part where they meet? Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Thanks for the pics of the teeth, I hadn't seen a good one yet. Are there any growth rings on the teeth or other texture? I ask because I now think I have a tooth frag and a few jaw frags from one of these guys. Do you have a picture of the mandibles, especialy the very front part where they meet?Dan Here's one, though it has only one tooth in place. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now