Fat Boy Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Last June I found two of these, and this past weekend I found 4 of them, and they all have the same basic shape. At first, I thought it was a bone fragment of some sort, but now I think it could be a tooth. I have no clue if it's an elasmobranch crushing type tooth, or a posterior heterodont tooth, or a fish bone (perhaps a haddock like fish otolith), but that was my guess. Anyone have an idea what these are? Here are the four that I found this time. Close up of the larger one. Kevin Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Last June I found two of these, and this past weekend I found 4 of them, and they all have the same basic shape. At first, I thought it was a bone fragment of some sort, but now I think it could be a tooth. I have no clue if it's an elasmobranch crushing type tooth, or a posterior heterodont tooth, or a fish bone (perhaps a haddock like fish otolith), but that was my guess. Anyone have an idea what these are? im not exactly sure if they are teeth, the black one does look somewhat like a tooth but the others dont look like teeth, but maybe you can see something i cant. If there is anyone who would know this it would be me lol, all the things that I have posted and was told they were something else. just looked at the pictures again and the top one looks like coprolite lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Boy Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 I guess I need a better pic...coming. But also a description of what I see would help. The problem is that if it's a tooth, I'm not sure what is the root and what is the blade! So, for the purposes of this description, I'll just refer to the orientation of them... The upper part of the object in the photo is rounded and bone like, almost like a root (that is what I initially thought that it was), and the bottom is very sharp, like a cutting edge, so I thought it might be a blade. But, what if the sharp edge is a blade and the dull edge is a crushing surface assuming it's a shark tooth? All of them are very similar in structure and follow this pattern although some are slightly different shaped. Again, I'll try and get a better pic. Last summer I had no idea what they were, so they sat in my unidentified section of that part of my collection. Now I've found several of them and it's getting to the point that I should try and get some info if possible. I have not found anything like this in the Miocene or Paleocene locations, nor have I found any at Myrtle Beach (the beach of many formations and eras). These things are very hard and durable...tooth like! Kevin Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopocetus Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 In the first picture. Middle left reminds me of the top jaw from a ratfish...but I can't say for sure. http://www.njfossils.net/ratfish.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-remanié Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I'd agree with bmore and say coprolite. Crack one open to be sure! Last June I found two of these, and this past weekend I found 4 of them, and they all have the same basic shape. At first, I thought it was a bone fragment of some sort, but now I think it could be a tooth. I have no clue if it's an elasmobranch crushing type tooth, or a posterior heterodont tooth, or a fish bone (perhaps a haddock like fish otolith), but that was my guess. Anyone have an idea what these are?Here are the four that I found this time. Close up of the larger one. ---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Boy Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Here are some more pics: Looking down on the "sharp" edge Looking down on the round edge Other views and also comparing to the others I couldn't get the big one to stand up the same way, LOL Kevin Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Here are some more pics: im pretty sure that they are fish skulls, ill see if I can get an i.d. or my favorite the tilly bone lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-remanié Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 ok yeah NOT POOP. first pictures were deceiving. internal cast of razor clam? i dont know. could be bony fish material of some sort im pretty sure that they are fish skulls, ill see if I can get an i.d.or my favorite the tilly bone lol ---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 ok yeah NOT POOP. first pictures were deceiving. internal cast of razor clam? i dont know. could be bony fish material of some sort i was thinking bony fish, if you look at the large one you see where it is broken showing the hard red shiny insided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 well, don't crack one of those weird things in here! who knows what sort of gnawing little alien grossness would come out of something that looks like that... i'd be dancin' faster than i do when tj hits a liner at my shins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I guess it's that I live in florida, but they look somewhat (missing the main part, of course) like a gator scute. Have any ancient/living creatures that had scutes that may have left these behind? Maybe some sort of a aquatic creature? Just me nickel and dime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I guess it's that I live in florida, but they look somewhat (missing the main part, of course) like a gator scute. Have any ancient/living creatures that had scutes that may have left these behind? Maybe some sort of a aquatic creature? Just me nickel and dime no i can see why you would say gator scute but these things are whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Boy Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 The more that I look at the Lee Creek teleost pages, I think I agree with you bmore, that they are fish bones, probably broken and worn preopercular pufferfish bones. Figure 5 on the first pufferfish fossils, if the fragile parts broke off, then a little surf wear...becomes mystery teeth? I just dunno. Kevin Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 The more that I look at the Lee Creek teleost pages, I think I agree with you bmore, that they are fish bones, probably broken and worn preopercular pufferfish bones. Figure 5 on the first pufferfish fossils, if the fragile parts broke off, then a little surf wear...becomes mystery teeth?I just dunno. lol i guess so the only thing that is bothering me is that edge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedhunter72 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 look like inside casts of bivalves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 look like inside casts of bivalves i would say yes but its bone lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverphoenix Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I would say scutes of some sort--reptilian...I'm stumped--those are definitely not gator or armadillo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Boy Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Update: A very experienced collector in my area agrees with that they are bones, probably worn pufferfish, maybe Sphoeroides hyperostosus, preopercular bones. He said that he's collected some as well. That said, he's not 100% sure. I keep examining them trying determine if they really are just bivalve internal molds, but they are much different than any other internal molds that I've found. They're bone like, almost with an enamel like coating on some of them. Still, I can't rule anything out yet. Also, I looked all over that area for shells that might have made such a mold which I would think would be fairly common since there are so many other shell species that are well preserved, and I didn't find any. This weekend I'm going to clean off some of the matrix that's still stuck to the larger one and maybe that will give me more of a clue. Pics to come. This could be delayed if I decide to go collecting instead Thanks for everyones input, I appreciate it very much! Kevin Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Boy Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 OK, the verdict is in. I received lot's of good input and done a ton of web searching and finally found out what these are. They are not teeth at all, nor are they internal bivalve molds. They are fish bones, specifically, the otoliths of Melanogrammus conjunctus. Most of the otolith info that I've found led me to believe that most if not all of them were way to small to be these fossils. But this species has otoliths that can exceed 6 cm.! OK, admittedly I'm 99% sure now, because I haven't compared my fossils to actual specimens, only web photos, but what I've seen has pretty much convinced me. Here was the latest website that turned the light bulb on for me: Click here and look on the left side, pictured alongside some shark fossils... Kevin Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 yep seems right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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