Bev Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Does "super family" equal order on this diagram? The diagram is from Wiki. And what are the life and domain categories? I so admire when people put all these names in their ids of fossils, but I just can't even seem to wrap my head around it, especially when I go to different sites and see different lists and it gets just mind boggling to my poor little pea brain. I was just working on gastropods and got this far: Don't know what is above this... Kingdom Animalia Phylum Mollusca Class Gastropoda Not sure where this fits with the ORDER Super Family Macluritoidea Family Macluritdae Genus Maclurites Species Crassus The more I learn, I realize the less I know. BluffCountryFossils.NET Fossil Adventure Blog Go to my Gallery for images of Fossil Jewelry, Sculpture & Crafts Pinned Posts: Beginner's Guide to Fossil Hunting * Geologic Formation Maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggieCie Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Here is a place I go to for scientific names, with an example. http://zipcodezoo.com/Animals/D/Diaphorostoma_niagarense/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bev Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 Thanks for the reference. This is like reallllly complex... The more I learn, I realize the less I know. BluffCountryFossils.NET Fossil Adventure Blog Go to my Gallery for images of Fossil Jewelry, Sculpture & Crafts Pinned Posts: Beginner's Guide to Fossil Hunting * Geologic Formation Maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa dino Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Then you add the Formation found in and the fun beings These names cans change from state to state and province to province and then from country to country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prem Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Oh...its gets even more complex...botany has a different set of categories such as tribe, subtribe, etc. Also, the species suffixes are sometimes different for animals vs. plants...for instance, if you named something after a Mr./Ms. Meek, for an animal, it would be: Somethingorother meeki but for a plant it would be Somethingelse meekii. Being an orchid enthusiast as well as a fossil nut often causes crosstalk between the two classification schemes in my brain. ---Prem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Hi Bev. I'm no great expert on these things, but as far as I know, Superfamily still belongs to the category "Family". You also have Subfamily. At the Order level you also have the possibility of Superorder above and Suborder below. Then you've got Subclass,Subgenus, Subspecies, Superphyllum, Subphyllum..... ....etc...... Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Oh...its gets even more complex...botany has a different set of categories such as tribe, subtribe, etc. Also, the species suffixes are sometimes different for animals vs. plants...for instance, if you named something after a Mr./Ms. Meek, for an animal, it would be: Somethingorother meeki but for a plant it would be Somethingelse meekii. Being an orchid enthusiast as well as a fossil nut often causes crosstalk between the two classification schemes in my brain. ---Prem The rules are confusing at times, but a species named for a male gets an 'i' suffix; meeki and a female gets an 'ae' suffix; meekae. Here is the Wikipedia entry: The second part of a binomial may be a noun in the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive case is constructed in a number of ways in Latin, depending on the declension of the noun. Common endings for masculine and neuter nouns are -ii or -i in the singular and -orum in the plural, and for feminine nouns -ae in the singular and -arum in the plural. The noun may be part of a person's name, often the surname, as in the Tibetan antelope Pantholops hodgsonii, the shrub Magnolia hodgsonii, or the Olive-backed Pipit Anthus hodgsoni. The meaning is "of the person named", so that Magnolia hodgsonii means "Hodgson's magnolia". The -ii or -i endings show that in each case Hodgson was a man (not the same one); had Hodgson been a woman, hodgsonae would have been used. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I like fossilworks.org. It doesn't have everything all the time, but it's a good place to start. According to that site, Maclurites belongs to the Order Euomphalina. Caleb Midwestpaleo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bev Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 Uff da, grind, grind, smoke coming from ears... LOL Maybe I should just stay in my place as an enthusiastic dimwit and forget about fancy long scientific names. Thanks Caleb for the reference! The more I learn, I realize the less I know. BluffCountryFossils.NET Fossil Adventure Blog Go to my Gallery for images of Fossil Jewelry, Sculpture & Crafts Pinned Posts: Beginner's Guide to Fossil Hunting * Geologic Formation Maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I just think about genus and species normally and on rare occasions family when I can't place something in a genus. All the other terminology just makes my head hurt. Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bev Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 I just think about genus and species normally and on rare occasions family when I can't place something in a genus. All the other terminology just makes my head hurt. Marco Sr. I love that!!! The more I learn, I realize the less I know. BluffCountryFossils.NET Fossil Adventure Blog Go to my Gallery for images of Fossil Jewelry, Sculpture & Crafts Pinned Posts: Beginner's Guide to Fossil Hunting * Geologic Formation Maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erose Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) I just think about genus and species normally and on rare occasions family when I can't place something in a genus. All the other terminology just makes my head hurt. Marco Sr. I agree, for what we do as hobbiests that is probably plenty. Bad enough when genera are revised but it can get crazy when they start revising old or erecting new orders and families and all the additional subsets. I do have a field labeled "Phylum" in my catalog but I just use it to name the most obvious category such as echinoid, gastropod, trilobite, etc. That is also where I would label it as a trace or ichno fossil. At one point I got all serious and tried including all those orders, families, classes, etc. But it was just a bit over the top and took up too much time and space. But, Bev, I love your enthusiasm for getting into the nitty gritty of this stuff. Edited January 27, 2014 by erose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erose Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Question: How many of you include the author and date with your identifications at the species level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hi, ME ! Because my regretted friend Greg had taught me all this ! Moreover, I read just now a discussion about a fish plate mouth, and when we aren't English-speaking, we have difficulty understanding about which fish you speak if you don't put the (complete) latin names ! And with authors and years it is better, because we could search publications ! Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Pareidolia : here Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old dead things Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I am glad to see that Bev wasn't frozen in her basement. I hope all of you in the midwest are staying warm in this brutal cold spell. I on the other hand am suffering from another 75/0 day in Arizona. 75 degrees and no wind, how boring. Four more days until the official opening of the Tucson Rock, Fossil, Gem and Mineral Show. Jim Old Dead Things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bev Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 LOL, I may not be frozen but I am cold! Minnesota is on a 60 degree thermostat setting for those of us with natural gas due to the pipline explosion in Canada - chilly... So I have been stapling up blankets on the hallways and sectioning off rooms to heat with electric heaters, putting on extra clothes and adding quilts to the bed. Reminds me of winters long ago... The more I learn, I realize the less I know. BluffCountryFossils.NET Fossil Adventure Blog Go to my Gallery for images of Fossil Jewelry, Sculpture & Crafts Pinned Posts: Beginner's Guide to Fossil Hunting * Geologic Formation Maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 LOL, I may not be frozen but I am cold! Minnesota is on a 60 degree thermostat setting for those of us with natural gas due to the pipline explosion in Canada - chilly... So I have been stapling up blankets on the hallways and sectioning off rooms to heat with electric heaters, putting on extra clothes and adding quilts to the bed. Reminds me of winters long ago... Good news Bev, you can turn your heat up again: http://www.wday.com/event/article/id/92810/ Caleb Midwestpaleo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hi, ME ! Because my regretted friend Greg had taught me all this ! Moreover, I read just now a discussion about a fish plate mouth, and when we aren't English-speaking, we have difficulty understanding about which fish you speak if you don't put the (complete) latin names ! And with authors and years it is better, because we could search publications ! Coco Coco The terms in one post that we are using for the fish mouthplates are not even the Latin genus or species but the common name of the modern fish. If you can put a Latin genus/species to the specimen please do so. Some collectors on the forum use the common modern names like drum or wrasse. Others use the Latin genus/species. We can all look up the Latin genus/species but the common names may not make sense if you don't speak English. Marco sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I think that's what Coco meant: "Please use the Latin names for those of us who don't speak English".. Dealing in inverts I usually use the Latin names (if I know them) by default because most things don't have a common name. Of course these keep getting shuffled around and renamed, or I am dealing with something that I have found no ID for, or not been told by those more expert than me. If I had better access to the literature it might help, but I don't have much, so I am left picking up the morsels that the pros drop for me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I think that's what Coco meant: "Please use the Latin names for those of us who don't speak English".. It is exactly that ! Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Pareidolia : here Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elcoincoin Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Fact that some species have 2, 3 or even more names is a real pain. and even worst, is when fossils you always knew with a certain name get a new offcial name. Lord i hate that. Seems that someone always want to have the last word. I m prolly missing the point but, idont see why i should call what i always knew as Turritella imbricataria, Haustator imbricatarius for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bev Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Fact that some species have 2, 3 or even more names is a real pain. and even worst, is when fossils you always knew with a certain name get a new offcial name. Lord i hate that. Seems that someone always want to have the last word. I m prolly missing the point but, idont see why i should call what i always knew as Turritella imbricataria, Haustator imbricatarius for whatever reason. I HEAR YOU! And I am new to this! Too many names! Common names (which at least I can usually pronounce somewhat), scientific names, latin names, then 2 or 3 name changes... Uff da, no wonder some of these don't catch on! The more I learn, I realize the less I know. BluffCountryFossils.NET Fossil Adventure Blog Go to my Gallery for images of Fossil Jewelry, Sculpture & Crafts Pinned Posts: Beginner's Guide to Fossil Hunting * Geologic Formation Maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erose Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) Fact that some species have 2, 3 or even more names is a real pain. and even worst, is when fossils you always knew with a certain name get a new offcial name. Lord i hate that. Seems that someone always want to have the last word. I m prolly missing the point but, idont see why i should call what i always knew as Turritella imbricataria, Haustator imbricatarius for whatever reason. I HEAR YOU! And I am new to this! Too many names! Common names (which at least I can usually pronounce somewhat), scientific names, latin names, then 2 or 3 name changes... Uff da, no wonder some of these don't catch on! Bottom line: If you have the species name, the author, and the date of authorship you have made a "positive identification" (or as good as we amateurs can get) and it isn't really critical that you have the most current generic placement. Whether I have it labeled as Vinlandostrophia ponderosa (latest) or Platystrophia ponderosa (recent) or even Orthis it is still the same thing. The name of the author and date will make it even easier to determine if all is equal. And this is why it is a good idea to keep notes in your catalog on how you made the identification. That makes going back and taking a second pass much easier. Now the trickier part is the ones that turn out to be synonymous. They can be trickier but with enough research all is equal and good. This is where those paleontologists who attempted to name every slight variation a new species (the Splitters) have left us a can of worms. Certainly more problematic than the ones who tossed everything into one bag (the Lumpers) but at least the Lumpers understood that others would sort it out later. And how willing you are to keep everything up to date is just a matter of effort. I have been labeling everything new to the collection as Vinlandostrophia but not bothered to go back and change the ones cataloged as Platystrophia. I can probably even do it fairly easily with the database I use, but I have so many fossils back logged it just seems trivial. Edited February 4, 2014 by erose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I usually don't bother with anything other than : order, genus and species. More than that is for Biologists "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) I don't even both with Order - usually just Phylum and/or Class and Gen/Sp.! Most of my specimens end up getting labeled, for example, "Bivalve: Sphenoceramus sp." (if I even have a genus name) Edited February 15, 2014 by Wrangellian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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