Trolls Vs. The Uninformed

[Ptychodus04]

That's some seriously funny stuff!

[tmaier]

It's a recipe for writing comedy. Pick two or three of the characters I described above, and set them to some task. Create your own sit-com.

Moe is a putz (bossy know-it-all)

Curly is a shlemiel

Larry is a shmoe, trying to put up with his brothers antics and not get injured.

Groucho Marx is a meshuga shlemiel (both crazy and annoying)

Harpo is also sometimes a meshuga schlemiel and sometimes playing shmoe

The third Marx brother is seldom seen, but he is the only NON-meshuga family member, so is pretty boring.

It's like puppet theater, and you are the puppeteer! Cut out your favorite yiddish characters and glue them to Popsicle sticks. and YOU are the writer/producer!

But these situations pop up in real life, too.

(Edit: When popsicle sticks are used for these types of purposes, they are called popsicle schticks )

Edited September 23, 2014 by tmaier

[Carl]

This is why I love this forum and the diverse group of members who share a wealth of knowledge; who are able to deal with a topic such as the dinosaur head with such tact and scientific integrity. To the point where no troll would get any satisfaction from the conversation, to be repeatedly shut down with scientific reason, not emotional investment.

This forum as long as I've been around has always hindered trolls, tries its best to inform the misguided and ultimately deals with each new case and individual circumstance with an enormous amount of patience and respect. Golden kudos all round guys!

Chris

Right on, Chris.

And I also meant to throw in another comment about the possible motives of our Uninformed. There are plenty of stories of folks who triumphed over the naysayers. And, obviously, the payoff is huge for winning there. This could help explain how entrenched some can be when all opinions are against theirs: if they win down the road, they win BIG.

[Auspex]

A Pyrrhic victory at best... "Reasonable" doesn't have to mean "surrender".

[tmaier]

There are plenty of stories of folks who triumphed over the naysayers.

I have respect for people who defy authority and think their own thoughts.

When I was teaching I would expect people to question what I was telling them. Often they were too busying accepting everything I said. If that was happening too much I would throw in some nonsense, and see who would object. The longer that people didn't object, the more I would drag them into absurdity, until one of them could take no more. I did that to teach them to scrutinize what they were being taught. Students shouldn't just be recording instruments.

I raised my son that way, and he knew from an early age that daddy was full of it sometimes.

[Carl]

I have respect for people who defy authority and think their own thoughts.

When I was teaching I would expect people to question what I was telling them. Often they were too busying accepting everything I said. If that was happening too much I would throw in some nonsense, and see who would object. The longer that people didn't object, the more I would drag them into absurdity, until one of them could take no more. I did that to teach them to scrutinize what they were being taught. Students shouldn't just be recording instruments.

I raised my son that way, and he knew from an early age that daddy was full of it sometimes.

That's just fantastic. And it points out something I think we all can see to some extent. "Question everything" is our basic mantra, but there is a weird fuzzy line in there when you concede. And describing where that line is is an individual choice, at best...

[Auspex]

That's just fantastic. And it points out something I think we all can see to some extent. "Question everything" is our basic mantra, but there is a weird fuzzy line in there when you concede. And describing where that line is is an individual choice, at best...

This, I will not question. Today.

[tmaier]

"Question everything" is our basic mantra, but there is a weird fuzzy line in there when you concede.

This, I will not question. Today.

You should question questioning things, if you question that.

I'm confused...

[BobWill]

My credo: "The more obvious something sounds the more scrutiny it deserves".

Of course sometimes this approach makes me seem like a real curmudgeon, but it has served me well in many things besides fossils.

It's so easy to arrive at opposite conclusions from the same set of facts especially if one has an agenda.

[tmaier]

Most of what we think we know are things that we learned early in life and never question, or even think to question.

[Bullsnake]

So...where is the fossil that needs ID'd?

[davehunt]

I agree with those stating that the OP was not a troll. Troll being someone purposefully attempting to rile up the group.

I was out of the country during most of Sept (and by that I mostly mean with poor internet availability) but just read the thread. I thought the Forum afforded him many opportunities to present his mis-informed ideas and countered with solid advice.

One thing I don't see mentioned here is that there is plenty of mental illness out there (of varying intensities) and anyone can walk through our door. The responses from the poster had almost an autistic feel to it to me (as someone very focused, not un-intelligent, but closed to external input). Such individuals are just as deserving of our respect if not our agreement.

[PFOOLEY]

Trolls lack the sense of wonder.

[RichW9090]

I always like to point out that it really doesn't matter if the person asking a question is simply uninformed or is a troll - the questions still stands. Most of what I've been involved with on Internet science outreach efforts. I started with the Evolution versus Creationism MSN Forum many years ago. It had the distinction of being mentioned both by TalkOrigins and Answers in Genesis (by the first favorably, by the latter quite unfavorably). I've come to realize that our real audience - those who we can reach and upon whom we can have an influence - are for the most part silent watchers.

So even if it is a troll, or is someone who is just not going to believe us because we've dashed their hopes, as long as we are civil, and lay out our evidence, I think we do something of value for all those reading and watching.

Rich

[jpevahouse]

Almost all collectors have some treasure hunter in them. There is the intense excitement of the adrenaline rush a person receives by believing they've made an extra special discovery. Some people take this to an extreme. I've known them but most people get their mild rush which quickly diminishes and they go on to something else. But some people really want to believe their fantasies are real.

Then there are people who like to confuse people or disrupt situations. It gives them a feeling of control they may not have otherwise. I assume these are the people you define as "troll".

[John K]

I've come to realize that our real audience - those who we can reach and upon whom we can have an influence - are for the most part silent watchers.

So even if it is a troll, or is someone who is just not going to believe us because we've dashed their hopes, as long as we are civil, and lay out our evidence, I think we do something of value for all those reading and watching.

Rich

I am, for thew most part, one of those "silent watchers": since I'm not able to get out on hunting trips as much as I'd like (and I don't buy a whole lot of material...), I do far more reading and digesting of the material presented here than I contribute. It's always been a pleasure to get an ID on a specimen, or to confirm a hunch I've had over the years.

[Auspex]

...as long as we are civil, and lay out our evidence, I think we do something of value for all those reading and watching.

Informative content can be one of the hidden uses of adversity, as long as civility reins.